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Old 07-15-2018, 09:09 PM   #76
mikesal57
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A shame you are taking this course of action.

I would think you could understand just why certain people, who have been using a function of your website for like, FOREVER, can't understand how something like that could "break" so hard, that it appears unfixable for the time being.

If you are used to using the batch function to upload all of your wagers, and have developed a method of play that revolves around such a function, you're going to be pretty pissed off and not very understanding when days and weeks go by, and it hasn't been fixed.

I've done a pretty fair amount of programming myself, and I know something like this SHOULD be a fairly simple fix.

It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason.

I can guarantee that if there were a MAJOR PLAYER utilizing this function, it would have been fixed pronto.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:10 PM   #77
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The decision was made to reconfigure and that is where it stands.

When there is blowback from longtime customers, you better start "reconfiguring" how much business you're actually going to lose...….Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do.

And that is where it TRULY stands.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:31 PM   #78
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I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:24 PM   #79
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I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!
I, for what it's worth...am sorry to see you go. Twinspires is the biggest ADW out there, and it's nice to have a player-services employee of theirs interacting with us here. All of us have lamented, at one time or another, that our voices are not heard in this game...and it pleases me whenever I see that I can actually converse with an industry "insider"...even if my concerns cannot be readily addressed. In any case...I appreciate the assistance that you have extended to me here...and I will call you directly tomorrow to see if there is something to be done about my own "grievances" with Twinspires.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:30 PM   #80
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The Twinspires toteboard has incorrect data for 6 out of 11 Hong Kong races on July 15.

I realize it is a free service, but it actually hurts the twinspires bottom line because there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to risk using the twinspires betting service if the toteboard is incorrect.

For example, six races at Sha Tin today have the wrong win pool bet amounts for one or two horses in each of those six races. The tote shows that eight different horses in six different races each had 8388607 bet on them. That is likely a programming error.

This causes the TS tote to display incorrect odds for those horses.

It is easy to compare the TS odds with the HKJC odds and see the differences. I realize that HK odds equal US odds + 1

Here are the horses that had 8388607 bet on them:

Race #5 - horse #3
Race #6 - horse #2
Race #7 - horse #3
Race #8 - horse #7 and horse #8
Race #10 - horse #13 and horse #14
Race #11 - horse #7

This is one out of a hundred other racetracks that TS handles. How many others have tote errors?

Basically, TS is unusable. TS is too risky to use.

But I kind of hope they don't fix there errors. Other ADWs have correct tote data. It's better to bet with them and get correct information. People who bet with bad totedata will lose. That helps me win.

Thank you, TS!

Last edited by highnote; 07-15-2018 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:47 PM   #81
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Note the edit: Changed Twinspires to Twinspires SUPERTOTE.

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The Twinspires SUPERTOTE toteboard has incorrect data for 6 out of 11 Hong Kong races on July 15.

I realize it is a free service, but it actually hurts the twinspires bottom line because there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to risk using the twinspires betting service if the toteboard is incorrect.

For example, six races at Sha Tin today have the wrong win pool bet amounts for one or two horses in each of those six races. The tote shows that eight different horses in six different races each had 8388607 bet on them. That is likely a programming error.

This causes the TS tote to display incorrect odds for those horses.

It is easy to compare the TS odds with the HKJC odds and see the differences. I realize that HK odds equal US odds + 1

Here are the horses that had 8388607 bet on them:

Race #5 - horse #3
Race #6 - horse #2
Race #7 - horse #3
Race #8 - horse #7 and horse #8
Race #10 - horse #13 and horse #14
Race #11 - horse #7

This is one out of a hundred other racetracks that TS handles. How many others have tote errors?

Basically, TS is unusable. TS is too risky to use.

But I kind of hope they don't fix there errors. Other ADWs have correct tote data. It's better to bet with them and get correct information. People who bet with bad totedata will lose. That helps me win.

Thank you, TS!
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:35 AM   #82
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I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!
In the back of my mind I always wonder why people in the industry rarely post. After all, we are customers and we usually are posting about things that are really wrong with the industry. Yet rarely a peep from anyone in the industry. Then this thread comes up, and out of the blue someone from Twinspires starts posting. Then suddenly a few things are posted that he doesn't like and he is out the door. Seriously?

My thoughts on Twinspires. I have used them for a number of years. No issues whatsoever. My sole problem is that I can no longer make my pick 4, pick 5 and pick 6 bets very quickly (now I have to spend about an hour typing in and checking tickets) and if I am too late in my capping or the toteboard alters my opinion, I am sol. In the grand scheme of Twinspires business model, this is probably pretty meaningless. But that being said, we are talking about business. We are talking about a business trying to cater to the needs of it's customer. We are talking about the old school values where companies actually worked to retain customers. By the way I had issues with getting my spreadsheets to function properly(I had to alter the output a bit) and it was not someone from your tech support that figured out what my problem was (they were unable to), it was none other than poster Alton Kelsey that figured out what my problem was.

What would I like to see from Twinspires? How about a bit of concern. "This has been going on too long. We have customers relying on our software for their betting needs, let's fix the problems and let them get back to doing what they do". But if taking care of customers is not in your business model, some customers will take puntitive action against your company. Sort of the theme of this thread. Instead of exiting the thread you should be providing us your assurances that Twinspires cares and that these matters will be resolved quickly("we are committed to get this resolved within the next 30 days). My guess is that Twinspires doesn't care and that the draft/conditional wager issue is very low priority for them. If that is indeed the case, probably best you stay lurking.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:05 AM   #83
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I heard an executive once from another ADW claim that "hardly anybody uses conditional wagering."

Maybe that's why it is so low on the priority list. Also, I'm thinking conditional/batch wagering uses too many system resources. Especially on big days.

After all, conditional wagering was one of the first things that WENT DOWN on Derby day this year at TS. I know...I was still using conditional wagering back then.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:39 AM   #84
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I heard an executive once from another ADW claim that "hardly anybody uses conditional wagering."

Maybe that's why it is so low on the priority list. Also, I'm thinking conditional/batch wagering uses too many system resources. Especially on big days.

After all, conditional wagering was one of the first things that WENT DOWN on Derby day this year at TS. I know...I was still using conditional wagering back then.
Can't speak to conditional wagering, but wouldn't batch wagering actually decrease resource use? You're not opening up a connection for each wager. As it is with TS, if I want to submit wagers for Tri/Supers programmatically, I call the bet request once per merged ticket. This can mean > 100 requests for a race. Compare that to AmWager, where I send once. Until about a month ago, I wasn't even aware that TS offered batch wagering - wish I had known as looping through wagers one at a time has actually caused me to miss placing some tickets.

On a different note, Spicemaster, thank you for taking the time to engage with the forum, and I hope you continue to do so. Having reps from the various ADWs lurking around here has only up side. BTW, to those questioning his sincerity, it is totally believable that this feature was broken and has not been prioritized to be fixed. My guess is that TS primarily caters to recreational players, given the rebate levels, and that recreational players likely are not huge users of batch wagering. Again, a total guess. But if that's the case, and imagining that they have an active issue list with 100s/1000s of issues, I can see how something - even if it only may take a few hrs to a day to fix - is low priority. Regardless, as a VIP rep, Spicemaster isn't the one prioritizing tech issues...
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:48 AM   #85
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I would think anyone using batch wagering is betting a decent amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Batch wagering is primarily used by people who want to send in a lot of bets quickly...and a lot of bets usually means a decent amount of money in my book.

The guy betting win/place/show isn't going to use batch wagering. And those are the guys who probably bet the LEAST, because there are a lot of $2 bettors among those folks.

Guys batch betting are probably betting multiple combination vertical wagers (vertical is pick 3, pick 4, etc. right? I always get confused on vertical vs. horizontal).

Anyway, this is a weird issue for me. The programmer in me tends to think something like this shouldn't take long to fix. Curious as to how it "broke" in the first place as well. Seems like it should be a simple connectivity issue, unless they changed a whole bunch of code recently and that isn't compatible with what the batch betting code is used to...

I just don't see this as some huge project, unless, again, they made pretty substantial changes that somehow broke the batch stuff.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #86
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Vertical

1

2 Exacta

3 Tri

4 Super

5 Hi Five


Horizontal

Race #

1......2..........3...........4..........5........ ..6

...Double...Pick 3....Pick 4....Pick 5....Pick 6
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:00 PM   #87
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I would think anyone using batch wagering is betting a decent amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Batch wagering is primarily used by people who want to send in a lot of bets quickly...and a lot of bets usually means a decent amount of money in my book.

The guy betting win/place/show isn't going to use batch wagering. And those are the guys who probably bet the LEAST, because there are a lot of $2 bettors among those folks.

Guys batch betting are probably betting multiple combination vertical wagers (vertical is pick 3, pick 4, etc. right? I always get confused on vertical vs. horizontal).

Anyway, this is a weird issue for me. The programmer in me tends to think something like this shouldn't take long to fix. Curious as to how it "broke" in the first place as well. Seems like it should be a simple connectivity issue, unless they changed a whole bunch of code recently and that isn't compatible with what the batch betting code is used to...

I just don't see this as some huge project, unless, again, they made pretty substantial changes that somehow broke the batch stuff.
Yep, I agree that it's likely used by those betting exotics which means it's likely larger handle. My point was that idk how much of that business TS actually gets, given that if you're making those kind of wagers, you probably want to bet somewhere with better rebates. Hence, maybe they don't get much business via batch wagering, so it's not as high of a priority.

FWIW, I did notice that their api endpoints have changed recently. Could indicate that there was some larger work going on.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:39 PM   #88
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Yep, I agree that it's likely used by those betting exotics which means it's likely larger handle. My point was that idk how much of that business TS actually gets, given that if you're making those kind of wagers, you probably want to bet somewhere with better rebates. Hence, maybe they don't get much business via batch wagering, so it's not as high of a priority.

FWIW, I did notice that their api endpoints have changed recently. Could indicate that there was some larger work going on.
Thats the key here....some matrix idiot deemed whats good and whats not good for TS....

And we all know who lost....

But we are only a small portion of people that know what we are doing...

Their target is the young and less experience bettors that dont know
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:03 PM   #89
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I would hope that they would take it into account that anyone using batch betting is likely to be more serious and more persistent than most.

I looked at my records and over the last 20 years I have 70,000+ races online. (I have been at it longer than twinspires with youbet and call-a-bet/xpressbet)

Even if the individual bets don't seem impressive to them they would have to attract an awful lot of casual players to replace my action over the long haul.

You would hope that satisfying long time customers would count for something.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:26 PM   #90
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I'm glad ya'll appreciate how absurd it is for this feature to be out of service for so long. And no, there is zero impact as far as network resources . A single low end pc could probably handle the entire batch universe at twinspires





And how is it that Nyra Bets doesn't even have a batch capability at all?




Programmatically, this is a trivial exercise. No idea why these guys are dropping the ball.


Other parts of the sites show considerable programming chops, so that can't be it.

Last edited by AltonKelsey; 07-16-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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