mark cramer

[Cheap Speed]

I own most of his books and found them to be useful and interesting. He is a little bit of a contrarian so if you are a strict Numbers person and have no interest in broadening your views, you probably wont like his books.

He probably is more geared to the part time player in that he often has ideas that try to reduce handicapping time vs the classic handicapping grinders.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Cheap Speed

I own most of his books and found them to be useful and interesting. He is a little bit of a contrarian so if you are a strict Numbers person and have no interest in broadening your views, you probably wont like his books.

I think that most people that don't like his stuff are looking for a magic bullet, either a plug and play system where you just plug in the data, or that final elusive tweak to their own system that makes it perfect.

Most of his writings deal with various aspects of handicapping that help you think about, or add value to, a comprehensive (i.e., old fashion) handicapping approach.

Although he does admit that he is always looking for an angle that produces an automatic bet. One he uses is a trainer angle, betting a horse dropping from a MSW to Mdn Claiming accompanied by a rider change to a leading jockey. These things come out of his studies on specific aspects of handicapping, such as trainer tendencies and intent.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

probably 3 or 4 who have read some of Cramer's books. How many have you talked to and found any them to be useful?

Several, including myself.

[mistergee]

i believe the initial question in the thread asked about tropical downs, which if my memory is correct was a novel, not a handicapping book

[highnote]

"Tropical Downs" is a fantastic novel. I highly recommend it if you like fiction. Cramer has a Ph.D. in Romance Language and has lived in South America where the book is set. He is from Brooklyn, NY, but currently lives in Paris, France.

"Scared Money" is also another terrific novel by Cramer.

"Funky Town" is a fun read. It is non-fiction and is about funky/trendy/hip/artsy towns that also have legal pari-mutuel wagering.

All his handicapping books are valuable in my opinion because of his contrarian views.

One of my favorite Cramer angles is "Ass on the Grass".

I found a good Maiden Special Weight drop down angle from Cramer that is worth investigating. I had to tweak Cramer's angle to get it to work because his angle didn't hold up over a large sample, but once I added a couple of exclusions to his angle its profitability improved.

[TheEdge07]

My favorite "Please hold all tickets"

As far as old fashion and outdated...this applies to 85% of handicappers....theres no magic bullet...

1.trip handicapping has been used for years
2.Beyer, Sheets, replays, pace figures, bias notes have been used for years
3.trainer angles used for years
4.before formulator cramer had a data base for certain angles

Cramer has never claimed to be a professional handicapper..

[dkithore]

Originally Posted by Cheap Speed

I own most of his books and found them to be useful and interesting. He is a little bit of a contrarian so if you are a strict Numbers person and have no interest in broadening your views, you probably wont like his books.

He probably is more geared to the part time player in that he often has ideas that try to reduce handicapping time vs the classic handicapping grinders.

Fine summation of his work. I find him original and authentic. Not many can follow his advise to follow epicurean way (selective in betting races). Perhaps that is the key to solvency. If you read his book, handicapping on the road, you realize that he has unique style of approaching the game. Admittedly it is not for many who can not pass races (me included).

[mannyberrios]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

While his stuff may be interesting and give you something to think about, I have yet to run across anyone who made a profit on any thing he wrote or was able to incorporate any of it into a successful handicapping method. You may find enjoyment in his writing, but you probably won't find gold.

There is gold in your posts

[Cheap Speed]

What books/authors do you still find gold in their books 10+yrs later?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Cheap Speed

What books/authors do you still find gold in their books 10+yrs later?

Especially if you didn't read the author to begin with.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Cheap Speed

What books/authors do you still find gold in their books 10+yrs later?

It depends on where the player happens to be in his horse-playing journey.

The relative beginner can find gold nuggets in many places...but those gold nuggets get more and more scarce as the player gains in knowledge and experience.

Eventually...it gets to a point where the only nuggets that are worth anything are the ones that the player unearths by himself.

[Harvhorse]

his 2yo to 3yo angle is the best I have ever used. Very profitable for me,

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It depends on where the player happens to be in his horse-playing journey.

The relative beginner can find gold nuggets in many places...but those gold nuggets get more and more scarce as the player gains in knowledge and experience.

Eventually...it gets to a point where the only nuggets that are worth anything are the ones that the player unearths by himself.

Maybe the player gets to smart for his own good. The nuggets might still work without supplementing them with experience?

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Cheap Speed

What books/authors do you still find gold in their books 10+yrs later?

You probably won't find any. I will say that books of Cramer's were not 10 years old when I read them. During that era I read every handicapping book that reasonably priced soon after it came out. For the record I am pretty high on Randy Giles's book. The first book I have found useful since some the early Beyer's books. It is ten years old yet but it is 5 or 6 years old and I have just read it. I don't read as much as I use to.

[Cheap Speed]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

For the record I am pretty high on Randy Giles's book. The first book I have found useful since some the early Beyer's books.

We agree on the Giles book. It was a good match for how I was capping anyway. I still use a couple of things from the book in my Handicapping. Talked with Randy about his program and tested it out a few yrs ago. He seems like a very good guy and was helpful.