When Pitchers Were Pitchers

[Pell Mell]

"You got guys that go five or six innings and everyone thinks it's great," said Parnell, who pitched 113 complete games and had 20 shutouts, including a no-hitter in 1956. "In 1949, I started 35 games and completed 27 of them. In the minors I pitched an 18-inning game and was thrown out at the plate in the 17th inning."

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/myc...&pid=156614150

[cj's dad]

If you want to see some great #s regarding games started vs. games completed check out Jim Palmer's stats at this site:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

[Marshall Bennett]

Ferguson Jenkins.

[cj's dad]

A few quick stats:

Jenkins:
'71 - 39 starts-30 CG's
'74 - 41 starts-29 CG's

Marichal:
'68 - 38 starts-30 CG's

Palmer:
'75 - 38 starts-25 CG's with 10 shutouts
'76 - 40 starts-23 CG's
'77 - 39 starts-22 CG's

Without looking this up, I would be surprised if the entire league, AL or NL, had these many CG's total, Palmer's being the lowest at 22 in 1977.

[lamboguy]

Jim Palmer was my favorite pitcher. whenever he came to Fenway i always went and cheered for him.

Mel Parnell was just slightly before my time, but i always heard the Red Sox broadcasters refer to him as a legend because he was a lefty and won all those games in a right hand hitters paradise.



RIP

[maddog42]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Ferguson Jenkins.

Ferguson Jenkins was inducted into the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame a couple of days ago. This was long overdue.

[Pell Mell]

Actually, I didn't start this thread because I wanted to compare the best of pitchers...it was only because he died yesterday and I wanted to mention his passing...

PS..I saw him pitch at Yankee stadium when I was a kid.

[PhantomOnTour]

Joe McGinnity pitched both ends of a double-header

[Canarsie]

This is just an opinion that is probably off the wall but here goes. Back in the day when pitches finished their games most had jobs waiting for them when the season was over. There was no weight lifting, off season training and so on. They showed up at spring training and said lets go. Also there weren't any dominant relievers through most of that period they would rather finish and take your chances winning the game.

You would the complete opposite now with the medical (not steroids!!!) and training advances to enhance ones physical condition. Its just the opposite for the life of me can't figure out why.

[Dave Schwartz]

The biggest difference is that the strategy of baseball changed. The trend really began with guys like Dick Radatz, Rollie Fingers and Goose Gossage.

The concept of "the closer" allowed the starter to change his expectation from "gotta go the distance so I better pace myself" to "I've only got to get 7 or 8 good innings."

This was quickly followed by the rise of the "middle man," and the bar was lowered again to "I've just got to get enough innings for the win."

As Canarsie said, the players are more fit yet pitching less innings.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Marshall Bennett]

Jenkins completed many of his games under the sun at Wrigley as well. While the afternoons may not be that bad in April and May in Chicago, they can be in July and August.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

Joe McGinnity pitched both ends of a double-header

Wilbur Wood pitched 5 innings of an extra inning game that had been suspended 2 days earlier and gained a victory. He then started another game the same day and pitched a 4 hit complete game for another victory.

[wisconsin]

Now you get the coveted "quality start" BS. The pitchers are clearly wussified, just listened the other day to Mike Marshall. If you can ever hear him speak on this, it's well worth it.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by maddog42

Ferguson Jenkins was inducted into the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame a couple of days ago. This was long overdue.

Oklahoma? I could swear Jenkins was from Canada.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

The biggest difference is that the strategy of baseball changed. The trend really began with guys like Dick Radatz, Rollie Fingers and Goose Gossage.

The concept of "the closer" allowed the starter to change his expectation from "gotta go the distance so I better pace myself" to "I've only got to get 7 or 8 good innings."

This was quickly followed by the rise of the "middle man," and the bar was lowered again to "I've just got to get enough innings for the win."

As Canarsie said, the players are more fit yet pitching less innings.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

The closer concept is ridiculous. Before 1990 (give or take a year or two) you'd see the star reliever, or "fireman" as they were called, actually putting out fires. They'd come into the game in the 7th or 8th inning, if the game dictated it, and in the middle of an inning to work out of a jam. The Gossages, Fingers and Sutters of the world would often pitch two, and sometimes even 3 innings. Now the "closer" comes into the game w/a clean slate to start the 9th inning. Don't get me wrong: Rivera is a great reliever. But the circumstances that he pitches under are far, far easier than what Gossage, Fingers, Sutter, et all had to do.