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Old 02-25-2021, 12:25 AM   #436
Rohirrim
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Originally Posted by xtb View Post
Complete bullshit, he was not killed by anyone.
The reality is that the investigation into his death is ongoing and nothing official has been released, including the autopsy report.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:37 AM   #437
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The reality is that the investigation into his death is ongoing and nothing official has been released, including the autopsy report.
His mother even says he had a stroke hours after the event.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:39 AM   #438
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Apparently you didn't see this earlier link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...-training-mob/
Behind pay wall
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:46 AM   #439
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Behind pay wall
It's a column written by a cop. PA can delete if he objects to it being copied.

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Shoot/Donít shoot. Shoot/Donít shoot. I keep muttering that impossible choice as I watch scenes of violence inside the U.S. Capitol. I know this question was racing through the minds of the Capitol Police officers we saw surrounded by the mob on Jan. 6. Shoot/Donít shoot. Some of them will be asking themselves that question for the rest of their lives.

They never should have been put in that position. The failure to prepare adequately for what was a very well-known and publicized protest and riot (people were openly talking about storming the Capitol with guns) made individuals out of what should have been a wall of officers.

Iím a police officer. In training, weíre taught to respond to various scenarios. There are plenty of scenarios in which a man suddenly reaches for a phone and you donít shoot, or where a woman whirls around with an automatic weapon and you do shoot. There are no scenarios where hundreds and hundreds of angry but mostly unarmed people push up and past you. Shoot/Donít shoot.

To understand how agonizing the decision to shoot or not shoot was in the case of the Capitol riot, itís important to know something about police policies involving lethal force. While every department has its own specific use-of-force policies, they all revolve around the notion of an imminent deadly threat. Officers are authorized ó they are compelled ó to use deadly force to prevent death or serious bodily injury to themselves or others.

In every police academy, including the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, where every Capitol Police recruit spends two months before coming back for another two months of agency-specific training, there is heavy emphasis on use-of-force decisions. These involve scenarios called ďjudgmentals,Ē in which the recruit, armed with a light-emitting gun, stands in front of screens playing various scenarios. The scenarios all present the same challenge: Properly recognize the threat in front of you and shoot if appropriate.

I helped build a police force in Iraq. We refused to dress them in camo.

I watch these Capitol Police officers running through their scenarios and their training and policies and their sense of duty and their sense of self-preservation. But I am looking at a situation that was unlike anything during training in judgmentals. Yes, the threat is obvious, but is it imminent, and against whom? Where do you draw the line of ďno moreĒ? The Capitol Police are well-trained in protests and even riots on the perimeter of the complex, but this doesnít work with small groups or isolated officers.

I was a Capitol Police officer from 2001 to 2002 and even now remember the high quality of training. We were trained in what to do if gunmen tried to storm the Capitol, but we were not trained in what to do if hundreds of people, egged on by the president of the United States, decided to rush the building and disrupt certification of the votes of the electoral college, not with an armed assault ó although some had weapons ó but with numbers. Huge numbers. Shoot/Donít shoot.

Itís easy to say that if you were there, you would have shot at a certain point; it appears there was only one incident of deadly force by a police officer, remarkable when you see the full scope of what was happening. But the reality is that every instinct of those police officers was to not shoot, and for a number of reasons. Left alone or in small groups because of leadersí lack of preparation for this event, each of these officers had to ask themselves the most horrible of questions: What is happening behind me? When do I kill 16 of the 1,000 people in front of me with the ammunition I have in my Glock 22 because they are pushing past me? (You wonít be able to reload.) What is my point of no return? I know Iím not a coward, but can I be a monster? And then this question: If I survive this, can I live with this?

Adding to the horror are reports that several officers have been suspended while their actions during the riot are investigated, acting more to encourage or enable than to protect and serve. I fear with certainty that other police departments will learn of criminal actions or conduct unbecoming by some of their officers in the riot. There is a violent extremist and often racist cancer in many parts of our society and certainly in law enforcement. Itís difficult to comprehend that while a handful of officers were taking selfies with people who had literally broken into the U.S. Capitol, many of their colleagues were facing the mob without adequate backup, cut off and continually asking themselves: Shoot/Donít shoot. Shoot/Donít shoot.

Iím a cop. I wonít fight a Ďwarí on crime the way I fought the war on terror.

Iím so angry at what has happened, and Iím so sad for those officers who will forever be asking these questions and more, questions we all should ask, such as: Why did people waving a ďthin blue lineĒ flag fatally injure a police officer? Why werenít there adequate preparations? Why did the president and senior elected officials and forever-angry talking heads urge people to ďfight,Ē to ďtake back their country,Ē and to ďstop the steal,Ē and why, then, did everyone act surprised that so many did exactly that?

I donít pretend to have answers, but I do know that this can never happen again. It shouldnít have happened at all. The whole point of security planning, of layered defenses and depth, is that it never gets to the point of what we all saw at the Capitol. If your security plan relies on the heroism of individual officers, then you havenít written a security plan. Youíve written suicide notes for other people.

What would we be talking about now if officers on the perimeter had decided to shoot because they correctly perceived the threat as imminent but not in a way that any policy would cover? How many people would have died? Would it have changed anything? We let far too much rest on the decisions of individual police officers endlessly reviewing an awful choice: Shoot/Donít shoot.

Patrick Skinner

Patrick Skinner is a police officer in his hometown of Savannah, Ga. He is a former CIA operations officer and served in the United States Coast Guard as well as the U.S. Capitol Police.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:55 AM   #440
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The three officers I'm referring to are holding the door in this video. They are not wearing riot gear. They are not carrying military firearms. And they clearly are afraid and have NO ****ING IDEA WHAT TO DO.

So they bailed.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/nat...pitol/2491343/
I'm talking about the THREE HEAVILY ARMED OFFICERS IN THE HALLWAY STANDING FEET AWAY FROM THE WOMAN WHO WAS SHOT DEAD.

Apparently, they didn't think she was much of a threat, or they would have taken her out first.

But they didn't...I wonder why...

And as Ralph said, they could have easily been shot by accident by the cop who murdered Ashli Babbitt.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:56 AM   #441
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The reality is that the investigation into his death is ongoing and nothing official has been released, including the autopsy report.
Do you not find this ****ing bizarre?

The reason you haven't heard anything on the autopsy (AFTER ALMOST TWO MONTHS) is because it completely blows the "he was murdered" narrative out the ****ing window.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:35 AM   #442
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The reality is that the investigation into his death is ongoing and nothing official has been released, including the autopsy report.
and it never will be, because it contradicks the killer insurrection dim lie
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:54 AM   #443
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Wow! Written by a cop? Oh my.....?

I like this part. ď I was a Capitol Police officer from 2001 to 2002Ē

So was Chris Mathews the disgraced MSNBC pundit. I didnít believe half the shit he used to say.

I donít give a shit what they say. Apparently if a cop writes something you give it great credence huh? Itís horse shit. That was not a good use of deadly force. She wasnít a threat to anyone.

If I buy off on your theory there should be a couple hundred body bags. Not one. Yep....the other cops didnít shoot unarmed women. They made the right decision.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:06 AM   #444
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It's amazing this cop got away with what he did without even his identity being splattered all over the news. Amazing how there exists different rules for the same kind of incident.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:42 AM   #445
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I donít give a shit what they say. Apparently if a cop writes something you give it great credence huh? Itís horse shit. That was not a good use of deadly force. She wasnít a threat to anyone.
"She" was the mob, and she/the mob had just violently breached the final barricade that security had set up to protect Congress and staffers. She was the first one through the breach, and she paid the price.

Repub Congressman explains

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Old 02-25-2021, 11:40 AM   #446
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He violated every use of force policy ever written. He shot an unarmed woman who had committed the heinous crime of crawling through a window and trespassing.

Again, if he was a street cop, he would be toast
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:03 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
He violated every use of force policy ever written. He shot an unarmed woman who had committed the heinous crime of crawling through a window and trespassing.

Again, if he was a street cop, he would be toast
If this situation was not so political, he would be prosecuted.
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:55 PM   #448
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His mother even says he had a stroke hours after the event.
Is that idiot going to believe the government over his mother?
Rhetorical question.....that guy is a a total moron.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:01 PM   #449
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If this situation was not so political, he would be prosecuted.
Imagine if Jan 6 was a BLM protest, and the woman climbing through the window was black and the cop was white.

But since it was the reverse (white woman, black cop), and because she was a Trump supporter, she gets no justice, just RIP.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:48 PM   #450
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Imagine if Jan 6 was a BLM protest, and the woman climbing through the window was black and the cop was white.

But since it was the reverse (white woman, black cop), and because she was a Trump supporter, she gets no justice, just RIP.
And you and Ralph would be coming down hard on the cop? Calling it murder - right?

Right.

Here, I'll help you with some better context.

Romney kicks Obama's butt in 2012, but instead of conceding, Obama spends weeks and weeks encouraging a BIG LIE about how he actually won in a landslide, and the election is being stolen.

This culminates with a big rally on Jan 6 2017 where as Congress is set to certify the election, Obama gives a speech at a BLM rally near the capitol and repeats his lies yet again, and talks about how he hopes VP Biden comes through for him, etc etc.

BLM then storms the capitol and all hell breaks loose, etc etc.

A black woman is the first to try hurling herself through the smashed reinforced window of a barricaded doorway as hundreds of rioting BLMers loom behind her, about to gain access to terrified members of Congress and staffers who are literally running for their lives and trying to find safe places to hide.

And a white cop shoots at whoever is coming through his established last line of defense, and drops her.

There. Proper context. And you and Ralph still crying murder.

Right?

You can bet your sweet bippy I still wouldn't be.
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