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Old 07-31-2020, 11:08 PM   #1
Bill Cullen
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Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance & surface of a race?

Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance and surface of a race? Most of the studies I've seen treat distance secondarily.

Thanks in advance if you reply and I'm a little slow in acknowledging.

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Old 08-01-2020, 02:58 AM   #2
Psychotic Parakeet
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I painstakingly compile distance specific stats, as they really help me with handicapping, way better than any other method I have tried. I have done it so far for the turf routes at Del Mar for their summer season. I get jockey/trainer, sire/broodmare combination, post position, ML and final odds, lay-off data, and running styles. You'd be surprised what you unearth. Some jockeys are crazy-good with certain distances and surfaces.

Here is an example after 20 races so far from the Del Mar meet with the 8.0F turf races:

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Old 08-01-2020, 09:17 AM   #3
Bill Cullen
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Hi PP,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:33 AM   #4
Tom
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Good question.
A couple of weeks ago, Andy Serling and Tom Amos were talking about the differences between a 9 furlong race at Toga as opposed to Belmont, 1 turn vs 2 turns. Another topic Andy has talked about a lot is turn backs.

We should start a thread in the Handicapper's Corner and talk about this topic, and one about surface. I remember someone posting about surface handicapping a while ago - maybe a search here for "surface handicapping" will turn up something....good topics!

I will use my db to check things out, as best I can, and I am sure others will join in.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:15 PM   #5
mountainman
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The difference between many t-bred distances is not real estate, or even a horse's innate ability to cover the specified furlongs at an individualized rate of travel. T-breds do not perform in vacuums, and the differences are field composition as relates to running style, gate skills, race-flow, and trips.

As I've said lots of times on the show, the real difference between 5 1/2 and 6 furlong races is NOT 110 yards.

BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:31 PM   #6
Bill Cullen
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Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:32 PM   #7
Bill Cullen
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Hi mountainman,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C
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Old 08-08-2020, 12:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.
I could not agree more. There are times when I scratch my head at some of the placements that trainers make when it is crystal clear what distance the horse needs.
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