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12-14-2022, 02:07 PM
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#8836
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
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Isn't there something in scripture that says only God knows that?
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Is there? You tell me, if you think so. |
It's a question. I have no opinion one way or the other.
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Sapere aude
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12-15-2022, 09:05 AM
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#8837
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
It's a question. I have no opinion one way or the other.
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I have an opinion one way and the other. But I ain't sayin'. 
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Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-15-2022, 05:37 PM
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#8838
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Sapere aude
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12-15-2022, 06:30 PM
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#8839
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
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Exactly! But exactly for how long the way things are heading?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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01-07-2023, 11:53 PM
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#8840
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
You are evading the question. I originally asked what intelligent power created the human race. You said natural selection.
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"Natural selection" is not an "intelligent power." The human species, i.e., homo sapiens, was not created by an intelligent power. Homo sapiens is the product of evolution, not creation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
In defense of your answer you now divert it to what planets and stars relationship to gravity is. Planets,stars and gravity was not your original answer to who or what intelligence created us.
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This was an attempt (apparently futile) to use an analogy to clarify something you apparently do not understand.
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Sapere aude
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01-07-2023, 11:59 PM
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#8841
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
"Natural selection" is not an "intelligent power." The human species, i.e., homo sapiens, was not created by an intelligent power. Homo sapiens is the product of evolution, not creation.
This was an attempt (apparently futile) to use an analogy to clarify something you apparently do not understand.
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It would help if I knew to what you were referring.
What was the # of Light’s post?
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All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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01-08-2023, 08:38 AM
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#8842
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
"Natural selection" is not an "intelligent power." The human species, i.e., homo sapiens, was not created by an intelligent power. Homo sapiens is the product of evolution, not creation.
This was an attempt (apparently futile) to use an analogy to clarify something you apparently do not understand.
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Maybe your analogy needs some work? The liberal mind isn't too keen on coming up with sound analogies. Just sayin'...
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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01-08-2023, 02:52 PM
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#8843
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
"Natural selection" is not an "intelligent power." The human species, i.e., homo sapiens, was not created by an intelligent power. Homo sapiens is the product of evolution, not creation.
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As long as you recognize yours is a philosophy. You seem unaware of "instrumental" causation. Augustine was writing about creation having "potentialities" and "seeds of gradual development" in the early 5th century.
Creation is not reshaping existent matter. It is creating from nothing pre-existent, "ex nihilo". For the theist, homo sapiens and all matter is unable to explain its own existence. Only that which has and is uncreated existence itself (and intelligence, etc.), in order to be able to extend it to creatures, holding them in existence at every moment.
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"I like to come here (Saratoga) every year to visit my money." ---Joe E. Lewis
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 01-08-2023 at 06:03 PM.
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01-08-2023, 06:49 PM
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#8844
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
It would help if I knew to what you were referring.
What was the # of Light’s post?
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#7811
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Sapere aude
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01-08-2023, 06:58 PM
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#8845
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
Creation is not reshaping existent matter. It is creating from nothing pre-existent, "ex nihilo".
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Violates the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy.
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Sapere aude
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01-09-2023, 12:11 PM
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#8846
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Violates the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy.
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Does the Law of Conservation break down in the Planck era? If so, is it therefore a logical necessity, or a contingency? (Cosmological arguments claim that whatever is contingent has an external cause).
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"I like to come here (Saratoga) every year to visit my money." ---Joe E. Lewis
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01-10-2023, 09:23 PM
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#8847
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
Does the Law of Conservation break down in the Planck era? If so, is it therefore a logical necessity, or a contingency? (Cosmological arguments claim that whatever is contingent has an external cause).
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__________________
Sapere aude
Last edited by Actor; 01-10-2023 at 09:32 PM.
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01-10-2023, 09:31 PM
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#8848
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
The religious mind isn't too keen on coming up with sound analogies. Just sayin'...
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FTFY
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Sapere aude
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01-10-2023, 10:08 PM
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#8849
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
"Natural selection" is not an "intelligent power." The human species, i.e., homo sapiens, was not created by an intelligent power. Homo sapiens is the product of evolution, not creation.
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You are referring to a June 2021 post of mine but let me pick it up from here without reference to that.
Your idea of "intelligence" comes across as limited. I believe your concept of intelligence has to do with the ability to think and reason (correct me if I am wrong).
There are many forms of intelligence that do not conform to our definition of intelligence and there are certainly much higher intelligence's than ours.
To start with, we certainly did not create ourselves with "reason and thinking". That came well after we were created . So there is a higher intelligence that created us before we even existed.
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01-11-2023, 02:57 PM
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#8850
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
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You didn't answer the question, "Does the Law of Conservation break down in the Planck era", but rather changed the subject to Woodford's "We don't know what happened before the Planck era, so not nothing." Having seen Hawking and Eric Seigel, et.al., equivocate "nothing" to mean quantum states, or the laws of physics, or gravity (something), I'm not confident in a youtuber to grasp the theist's "ex nihilo".
I'm not much interested in the Kalam argument as a proof of a finite universe. I much prefer the metaphysical arguments which do not depend upon a finite universe.
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"I like to come here (Saratoga) every year to visit my money." ---Joe E. Lewis
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