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01-31-2015, 09:23 PM
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#31
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Refugee from Bowie
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Let's play it out then.....
Spain and Greece both balk.
What happens then? Does the flow of money then stop across borders ?
Does Merkel stop all trade with Greece? Spain? I don't know how you could enforce that?
How about seizing assets? This could get strange real quick.......
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http://i0.wp.com/armstrongeconomics....-1-31-2015.jpg
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02-05-2015, 01:05 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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History In the Balance: Why Greece Must Repudiate Its “Banker Bailout” Debts And Exit The Euro
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/02/d...ankster-debts/
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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02-05-2015, 01:31 PM
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#33
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Registered user
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FALIRIKON DELTA
Posts: 4,439
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Here you can watch the interview of the Greek minister of economics Yanis Varoufakis on CNN and BBC:
[YT="Yiannis Varoufakis on CNN"]-iPW9Te7TJM[/YT]
[YT="Yiannis Varoufakis on BBC"]GO79swtDKGo[/YT]
__________________
whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent
Ludwig Wittgenstein
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02-05-2015, 01:33 PM
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#34
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Registered user
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FALIRIKON DELTA
Posts: 4,439
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Greece won’t cooperate with ‘troika,’ rejects aid extension
http://rt.com/news/228031-greece-tro...fakis-bailout/
__________________
whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent
Ludwig Wittgenstein
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05-23-2015, 03:17 PM
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#35
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,822
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05-23-2015, 03:41 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
real pain starts to develop
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Let's hope that the current representation of 1920's Germany doesn't follow in its footsteps.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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05-23-2015, 05:39 PM
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#37
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broken-down horseplayer
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Portland, OR area
Posts: 2,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Let's hope that the current representation of 1920's Germany doesn't follow in its footsteps.
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We can hope, but it looks pretty baked in to me.
__________________
Playing SRU Downs - home of the "no sweat" inquiries...
Defying the "laws" of statistics with every wager.
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06-27-2015, 03:45 AM
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#38
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broken-down horseplayer
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Portland, OR area
Posts: 2,090
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This has been like undergoing Chinese water torture. Maybe coming to head now, as the Greeks will vote on whether to accept the demands of the ECB.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ditors-demands
Let's hope they follow the successful playbook used in Iceland.....
__________________
Playing SRU Downs - home of the "no sweat" inquiries...
Defying the "laws" of statistics with every wager.
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06-27-2015, 07:54 AM
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#39
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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The EU and Greece has really good at being in perpetual crisis. They pushing back dates and nothing really gets done. And nothing can really get done because Greece is so far in the hole that it can not possibly dig itself out. It is past time to cut bait. Nothing much will happen if Greece defaults except a few bondholders who foolishly bought Greek debt will lose their investment. That would not be the end of the world. The Bonds have been heavily discounted for sometime. Second, I have never believe that stupidity should be rewarded. Few things have been more stupid than buying Greek debt has been over the last few years. Everything applies to Greece also applies to Spain, Portugal and Ireland. If all four leave the Euro, both them and the Euro would be better off. Italy because it has a much larger economy than those four is a different story.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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06-27-2015, 08:57 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The EU and Greece has really good at being in perpetual crisis. They pushing back dates and nothing really gets done. And nothing can really get done because Greece is so far in the hole that it can not possibly dig itself out. It is past time to cut bait. Nothing much will happen if Greece defaults except a few bondholders who foolishly bought Greek debt will lose their investment. That would not be the end of the world. The Bonds have been heavily discounted for sometime. Second, I have never believe that stupidity should be rewarded. Few things have been more stupid than buying Greek debt has been over the last few years. Everything applies to Greece also applies to Spain, Portugal and Ireland. If all four leave the Euro, both them and the Euro would be better off. Italy because it has a much larger economy than those four is a different story.
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Again, I agree with you. Second time this morning. I feel all naughty and used. Maybe I'll go back to bed and see if my brain recharges.
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06-27-2015, 09:51 AM
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#41
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Registered user
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FALIRIKON DELTA
Posts: 4,439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The EU and Greece has really good at being in perpetual crisis. They pushing back dates and nothing really gets done. And nothing can really get done because Greece is so far in the hole that it can not possibly dig itself out. It is past time to cut bait. Nothing much will happen if Greece defaults except a few bondholders who foolishly bought Greek debt will lose their investment. That would not be the end of the world. The Bonds have been heavily discounted for sometime. Second, I have never believe that stupidity should be rewarded. Few things have been more stupid than buying Greek debt has been over the last few years. Everything applies to Greece also applies to Spain, Portugal and Ireland. If all four leave the Euro, both them and the Euro would be better off. Italy because it has a much larger economy than those four is a different story.
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You have certainly underestimated the consequences of a possible Grexit; the reality is that nobody knows with a good degree of certainty what the cost of it is going to be for the European Union and even for the whole world.
Historically speaking, we have never seen something similar before and it its unclear how it is going to happen and whether or not, it is going to cause the end of the EURO and Europe as we know it today...
The seriousness and the uncertainty of a possible Grexit, is exactly why the three institutions (EU, ECB and the IMF) have been so reluctant to stop the negotiations with Greece and they have continued so far, trying to find a way avoid it.
Greece been so far in the hole as you say, is only a symptom of the real disease, that is causing the patient, that is called Europe, to suffer and remain desperate of the remedy for its recovery.
All the countries you are referring to (Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland) as candidates to leave the EURO, have in common that they are under-developed in comparison to the other members of the Union and certainly do not have the ability to compete against Germany, under equal conditions.
Germany is taking advantage of its superiority against the rest members of the union, trying to achieve its eternal dream to dominate the whole Europe (and possibly even more).
In terms of USA, the Greece's crisis, is analogous to Detroit going bankrupt and no receiving a bailout plan from the federal government.
In the case of Greece, the EU is acting like a bad stepmother, who instead of helping her daughter to recover and become prosperous again, is driving her to unprecedented misery, applying the most strict austerity which is comparable to trying to cure a diabetes by eating ice cream for breakfast and a whole cheesecake for lunch.
Instead of trying to revive development by directing new investments to Greece and creating new economic growth, the Germans are imposing simultaneously more taxes and salary decreases, a model that in the five years that is been applied, has driven Greece to such a miserable condition, that can only be compared to the end of the WWII, ( when coincidentally the reason of the catastrophe was again the same country, that seems to never learn its lesson)...
__________________
whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Last edited by DeltaLover; 06-27-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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06-27-2015, 10:11 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horses4courses
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Krugman is the George Costanza of writing. Whatever he says, do the opposite.
I know this link is a week old, but this shouldn't surprise anyone:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...isis/28973733/
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06-27-2015, 10:11 AM
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#43
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Washoe County, Nevada
Posts: 2,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The EU and Greece has really good at being in perpetual crisis. They pushing back dates and nothing really gets done. And nothing can really get done because Greece is so far in the hole that it can not possibly dig itself out. It is past time to cut bait. Nothing much will happen if Greece defaults except a few bondholders who foolishly bought Greek debt will lose their investment. That would not be the end of the world. The Bonds have been heavily discounted for sometime. Second, I have never believe that stupidity should be rewarded. Few things have been more stupid than buying Greek debt has been over the last few years. Everything applies to Greece also applies to Spain, Portugal and Ireland. If all four leave the Euro, both them and the Euro would be better off. Italy because it has a much larger economy than those four is a different story.
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The "foolish bondholders" are largely the IMF and other government entities. Very little of Greek debt remains in private hands. The very first step taken in response to the crisis was socializing the problem. The alternative was a contagion of bank failures. So, it's too late to not reward stupidity.
I think the "solution" of kicking the can far down the road as outlined in my prior response remains the most likely outcome. Where I might have thought the possibility of Greece exiting the euro was less than 10% then, I might up it to between 10-20% now.
If nothing else, Greece has run out of political parties that can promise relief from austerity while remaining in the euro. On balance, I think they will want to stay part of the union despite the allure the quick fix of a devalued drachma offers. The point most comments on this seem to miss is that Greece holds all the cards, not the troika.
The old adage applies. If I owe you $20, it's my problem. If I owe you $20 billion, it's very much your problem.
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06-27-2015, 10:13 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,058
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My dad (a proud Greek) always said that the problem with Greece was that most of the industrious Greeks left to come to America.
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06-27-2015, 10:36 AM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,569
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Greece
Place will be up for grabs soon.
Wouldn't it just make for the greatest US military base?
Whoa....talk about strategically placed!
Heck, you could turn what ever the military
doesn't want into a great big Disney World.
__________________
Want to know what's wrong with this country?
Here it is, in a nutshell: Millions of people are
pinning their hopes on a man who has every
chance of returning to the WH, assuming that
he can manage to stay out of prison. Think about it.
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