Can you whales get greedier, please?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

Well it sounds like you guys had them where you wanted them and let them off of the hook. What would help CA players the most? 14% pick 5s and 20% doubles or the ability to get a better rebate return for all bettors?

Kudos for doing it, but those two takeouts help a small percentage and many people wager on neither of those pools.

It's about the gambling game of horse racing. Would you play in a live money tournament with a buy in of $500 where 25% of the field was credited with an extra $50? Of course not.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

It's about the gambling game of horse racing. Would you play in a live money tournament with a buy in of $500 where 25% of the field was credited with an extra $50? Of course not.

No I wouldn’t. However it’s California that is the issue here. For years bettors asked for bigger pools, this helps. The biggest thing you guys can do is call your states legislators, explain to them why them holding back your ability to get rebates hurts you and your ability to stay in the game. Tell them if it doesn’t change, you and thousands of others will leave the industry. If they don’t do anything, follow through with it.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

No I wouldn’t. However it’s California that is the issue here. For years bettors asked for bigger pools, this helps. The biggest thing you guys can do is call your states legislators, explain to them why them holding back your ability to get rebates hurts you and your ability to stay in the game. Tell them if it doesn’t change, you and thousands of others will leave the industry. If they don’t do anything, follow through with it.

The biggest pools happen when everyone has the same shot. Every pool is a tournament so why give someone an edge in that tournament?

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Dave, you and I both know that most of the highly rebated players are playing a totally different game than people playing retail takeout. If people were only rebated on losing wagers what would happen? Or if the max rebate for all tracks was 5% what would happen?

What would happen
1. They'd still be better than we are.

2. They'd still get higher rebates than we would because, as volume players, the tracks would give them 5% and we'd get 1% (or less).

3. They'd have a more difficult time making profit and would bet less money, but still make massive amounts.

4. Handles would go down because some current winning players would now be losing players.

5. The "rebates on losers only" would make longshots more attractive, thereby forcing the whales to move their area of concentration from low/medium odds to include higher odds.


I could go on and on but the bottom line is that the industry cannot get the manure back into the horse.

There is nothing to be done short of the tracks not allowing winning players.

[acorn54]

there is a classic lesson to be learned here. we live in a free country where the individual can choose what to do with their precious time given on this earth.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

They aren’t going to lower takeout for people who don’t wager a certain amount. The less you play, the higher your takeout is...pretty much like any other business model.

This is the grid of my rebates.

Keep in mind I never play WPS.

I rarely play doubles or exactas.

99% of my plays are pick 3s or pick 4s, tris and supers.

This is the first time I've seen anyone post a full chart of actual rebate rates from any ADW...I know that if you named the ADW, they'd probably have a shit fit, as it seems the goal is to keep these rates as secretive as possible...so don't name them...

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

What would happen
1. They'd still be better than we are.

2. They'd still get higher rebates than we would because, as volume players, the tracks would give them 5% and we'd get 1% (or less).

3. They'd have a more difficult time making profit and would bet less money, but still make massive amounts.

4. Handles would go down because some current winning players would now be losing players.

5. The "rebates on losers only" would make longshots more attractive, thereby forcing the whales to move their area of concentration from low/medium odds to include higher odds.


I could go on and on but the bottom line is that the industry cannot get the manure back into the horse.

There is nothing to be done short of the tracks not allowing winning players.

Respect your opinion but the game has to be sold as it was intended. Parimutuel wagering is supposed to be competition among gamblers in each pool. Lower takeout for all is the only way to grow the game IMO

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

This is the first time I've seen anyone post a full chart of actual rebate rates from any ADW...I know that if you named the ADW, they'd probably have a shit fit, as it seems the goal is to keep these rates as secretive as possible...so don't name them...

Trust me I won’t. The thing is, each chart is different for every bettor. The rep/salesman negotiates with you until you are happy enough to go to their site.

I only posted it to show that just because I’m female, doesn’t mean I don’t know anything, and that I only bet $2 a race.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

I only posted it to show that just because I’m female, doesn’t mean I don’t know anything, and that I only bet $2 a race.

Having run this place for 19 years, I would never have thought otherwise.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Respect your opinion but the game has to be sold as it was intended. Parimutuel wagering is supposed to be competition among gamblers in each pool. Lower takeout for all is the only way to grow the game IMO

No argument on the "lower takeout." It would be better for the track as well.

However, talking about what wagering is "supposed to be" or what the tracks "should do," is a complete waste of time. They simply aren't listening.

As far as "selling the game," they aren't doing much of that either.

Remember, these are the geniuses who believe that the customers in racing are the people who own race horses.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

No argument on the "lower takeout." It would be better for the track as well.

However, talking about what wagering is "supposed to be" or what the tracks "should do," is a complete waste of time. They simply aren't listening.

As far as "selling the game," they aren't doing much of that either.

Remember, these are the geniuses who believe that the customers in racing are the people who own race horses.

Dave, it can all change in 30 Days if everyone pulled together. Problem is that the people getting the benefits don't want to disrupt the status quo.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

A few years ago I couldn’t even bet on tracks within my state. I called legislators dozens of times and finally it was changed. I bluntly told them, I’m not going to the track to place those wagers so they can either relax the laws and get a lesser amount or getting nothing when I wager nothing with them.

Oddly enough, it worked.

How could I persuade you to call the legislators of MY state? Because when I do it...it does no good at all.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

How could I persuade you to call the legislators of MY state? Because when I do it...it does no good at all.

Persistence my friend... persistence... as I said I called dozens of times. Have to find someone friendly to the situation.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

Persistence my friend... persistence... as I said I called dozens of times. Have to find someone friendly to the situation.

It's easy for you to be patient...because you seem to be a lot YOUNGER than I am.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Dave, it can all change in 30 Days if everyone pulled together. Problem is that the people getting the benefits don't want to disrupt the status quo.

It can only change in 30 days if you can get the whales onboard.

I don't see that happening. LOL