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11-09-2018, 05:54 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,334
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There's a piece being left out....all the off-the-turf races have depleted potential dirt runners. While I realize we haven't had an abundance of MTOs, there have been enough to affect some dirt races. In this ecosystem, the rain has disrupted EVERYTHING.
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11-09-2018, 06:51 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
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I have moved on from Aqueduct racing for now. Seems like their scratching half the horses entered.
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11-09-2018, 07:07 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
There's a piece being left out....all the off-the-turf races have depleted potential dirt runners. While I realize we haven't had an abundance of MTOs, there have been enough to affect some dirt races. In this ecosystem, the rain has disrupted EVERYTHING.
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I hadn't thought of that; thanks for mentioning.
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11-11-2018, 10:42 AM
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#19
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BombsAway Bob
While the underlying reason may be the eventual demise of Belmont,
the idea of putting a second turf course in at a track where optimum
weather will allow you to run on it two out of six months is baffling IMO.
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Twice the opportunity to lose races to rain.
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11-11-2018, 10:48 AM
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#20
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
There's a piece being left out....all the off-the-turf races have depleted potential dirt runners. While I realize we haven't had an abundance of MTOs, there have been enough to affect some dirt races. In this ecosystem, the rain has disrupted EVERYTHING.
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Exactly. Not blaming NYRA, but the nd result is still the same.
Smaller field and many non-competitive fields.
Not sure what the answer is, but is it even being discussed?
At least for weekend racing.
Maybe have sub races for dirt on standby, make the decision late Thursday or Friday which to run? As it is now, when the race comes of and scratches happen, everyone's schedule is disrupted anyway.
Maybe a 10%-15% purse bonus for MTO only horses? Weight allowance? Waiver claiming for MTO? Exception from allowance conditions for MTO?
"NW1X MCS, OC50,000 or MTO" clause?
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11-11-2018, 12:02 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Exactly. Not blaming NYRA, but the nd result is still the same.
Smaller field and many non-competitive fields.
Not sure what the answer is, but is it even being discussed?
At least for weekend racing.
Maybe have sub races for dirt on standby, make the decision late Thursday or Friday which to run? As it is now, when the race comes of and scratches happen, everyone's schedule is disrupted anyway.
Maybe a 10%-15% purse bonus for MTO only horses? Weight allowance? Waiver claiming for MTO? Exception from allowance conditions for MTO?
"NW1X MCS, OC50,000 or MTO" clause?
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Fortunately, I don't run the racing office. You would think/hope the purses are good enough that you shouldn't need any more incentive to run as an MTO. Not that I dislike your idea, but shouldn't the regular purses be enough? If anything, we should incentivize turf horses to stay in ( but, then, dirt horses would just enter in the body of the race....right? ). Vicious circle.
You can't have "sub races" as that would cause WAY too much confusion. Plus, I'm not even sure we could fill extra races anyway ( note Wednesday's 8-race card ).
I hear you, and it's frustrating and difficult. We have been fortunate overall with weather over the past four or five years. We paid for it this year. It's brutal for everyone. Hopefully, this too shall pass.
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11-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
And as we have seen pretty much all year at NYRA, when it rains those big field go to Hell in a hurry. If NYRA is dead set on becoming some kind f Europe East, maybe they should consider getting rid of dirt and putting in poly to support that goal.
Anyone have any stats on how that works at WO? GG?
I know weather is unpredictable, but when you put on your product outdoors, you have to keep looking for solutions.
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I'm not sure it would even be feasible, but having 3 tracks would be an interesting "long term" solution. Widen the turf and they could still card plenty of turf races by moving the rails around a bit. Then whenever it rains move the turf races to a turf friendlier variation of synthetic. Then in the winter, use the synthetic for racing (if AQU ever goes away) or turn it into a training track.
You are right about one thing though, NY is becoming US center of turf racing when it should actually be California. It's almost like CA should send their dirt horses here and we should send our turfers there and maybe we'd all be better off.
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Last edited by classhandicapper; 11-11-2018 at 12:25 PM.
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11-11-2018, 12:39 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
They should hire you.
Or did you apply for a job with them and get rejected. That would explain a lot.
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"adjust the condition book"...Yeah, I found that rather amusing.
"weather Channel" also on the humorous side of silly.
Wonder if the poster above would be satisfied if the condition book was based on the Old Farmer's Almanac
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11-11-2018, 12:41 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I am a big critic of NYRA, but I bet writing condition books at Northeast tracks in the fall and spring when weather shifts are so common is a really tough job.
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Naaaah..Its easy. Just ask the OP.
Look, I am no apologist for NYRA. Or any other racing jurisdiction.
If they get it right, I go along with it. If they get it wrong( chronically) I will opine to that effect.
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11-11-2018, 12:56 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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NYRA isn't sick...but I can't be as sure about the mental condition of its wagering patrons. The wagering opportunities there have been decidedly unappetizing...IMO.
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11-11-2018, 01:06 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Maybe just too many races are carded for the turf.
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Naah....It is n't too many. its the fact that more races on turf are needed because more horses are better suited for turf.
Or would you prefer turf specialists simply emigrate to Europe and we have no turf races here in the states?
Here's another idea. Bet Turfway, Oaklawn and Los Al...No turf at any of those.
Just sayin.
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11-11-2018, 01:11 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I'm not sure it would even be feasible, but having 3 tracks would be an interesting "long term" solution. Widen the turf and they could still card plenty of turf races by moving the rails around a bit. Then whenever it rains move the turf races to a turf friendlier variation of synthetic. Then in the winter, use the synthetic for racing (if AQU ever goes away) or turn it into a training track.
You are right about one thing though, NY is becoming US center of turf racing when it should actually be California. It's almost like CA should send their dirt horses here and we should send our turfers there and maybe we'd all be better off.
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The problem with southern latitude tracks being the centers for turf racing is.....Well use Gulfstream as an example. Two months into their winter meet, the turf course resembles a moonscape.
The issue is the type of warm season turf grasses that can grow in those agronomic conditions have shallow root bases. Those grasses do not tolerate the repeated pounding and tearing associated with horse racing.
Hence, the tenuous conditions we see at those places
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11-11-2018, 04:34 PM
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#28
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
Naah....It is n't too many. its the fact that more races on turf are needed because more horses are better suited for turf.
Or would you prefer turf specialists simply emigrate to Europe and we have no turf races here in the states?
Here's another idea. Bet Turfway, Oaklawn and Los Al...No turf at any of those.
Just sayin.
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If we never ran another turf race, I would not cry.
IF we never ran another turf sprint I would do cartwheels and buy round for the track.
I do bet OP - best track out there, bar none.
One thing is for sure - the problem never goes away until people try to come with ideas to solve it.
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Last edited by Tom; 11-11-2018 at 04:39 PM.
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11-11-2018, 09:35 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Maybe a 10%-15% purse bonus for MTO only horses? Weight allowance? Waiver claiming for MTO? Exception from allowance conditions for MTO? "NW1X MCS, OC50,000 or MTO" clause?
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NYRA already tried something similar several years ago at Saratoga where any race taken off the turf & remaining with 8+ betting interests got a purse boost of 20%. I don't recall this being a rousing success considering here we are still discussing ways to keep fields in tact when rained off the turf.
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11-11-2018, 10:04 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
If we never ran another turf race, I would not cry.
IF we never ran another turf sprint I would do cartwheels and buy round for the track.
I do bet OP - best track out there, bar none.
One thing is for sure - the problem never goes away until people try to come with ideas to solve it.
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Im not seeing a problem. So we have to skip a race once in a while. If the world were a perfect place, life would be boring.
Look, Its weather related.
Your vote for "no turf racing" is noted. Thank you.
I like turf racing. Larger fields. Better value. More skilled handicapping involved.
JMO
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