Owner/Trainer.... different trainer?

[JWBurnie]

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by JWBurnie

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?

I believe the same scenario has played out at CT recently, with Klesaris owning and SB training....strange, to say the least....

[JWBurnie]

I just can't come up with a reason. Pay a day rate, plus 10% for a 5K claimer when you're a better trainer?

[BillW]

Originally Posted by JWBurnie

I just can't come up with a reason. Pay a day rate, plus 10% for a 5K claimer when you're a better trainer?

Licensing issue? Suspension?

[Hanover1]

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

[JWBurnie]

Originally Posted by BillW

Licensing issue? Suspension?

That would have been my first thought too, but he ran a horse that same night, with him as the trainer and part owner. Can't be licensing or suspension.

[JWBurnie]

Originally Posted by Hanover1

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

How would the "beard" benefit Klesaris in this situation? I would think if you need a "beard" for one, you'd want to cover them all. Unless of course they're "special" horses.... and then it would really question the purpose of the "beard".

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by JWBurnie

How would the "beard" benefit Klesaris in this situation? I would think if you need a "beard" for one, you'd want to cover them all. Unless of course they're "special" horses.... and then it would really question the purpose of the "beard".

Got to be some type of situation they are getting around....entrywise or other........

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanover1

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

I don't get this. You were in essence risking your trainer's license, and you didn't realize what was going on? Odd, imo.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I don't get this. You were in essence risking your trainer's license, and you didn't realize what was going on? Odd, imo.

I followed orders, was well paid, and was fully aware of treatments given the horses. Worked hand in hand with the vet, ect.....only had 1 positive in my whole career, and it was a timing/threshold situation involving banamine. We raced at the top of the harness game with starters in the Hambletonian, and multiple stake winners across the curcuit. At that level, you don't ask questions, you just follow orders and be thankful for the opportunity, as I was. You must understand, this was the 70s-80s, and steroid use was widespread, along with milkshaking, ect.....In essence I was given a token badge for my hard work, and hands on efforts, while bossman played golf, ect.......

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanover1

I followed orders, was well paid, and was fully aware of treatments given the horses. Worked hand in hand with the vet, ect.....only had 1 positive in my whole career, and it was a timing/threshold situation involving banamine. We raced at the top of the harness game with starters in the Hambletonian, and multiple stake winners across the curcuit. At that level, you don't ask questions, you just follow orders and be thankful for the opportunity, as I was. You must understand, this was the 70s-80s, and steroid use was widespread, along with milkshaking, ect.....In essence I was given a token badge for my hard work, and hands on efforts, while bossman played golf, ect.......

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.

I knew perfectly well why I was put down as trainer, and you see nothing in my post alluding to illicit acts, and my record speaks for itself. It was a matter of coming to an understanding exactly why....He was away alot, we ran satellite stables, and he needed a man in charge to enter horses, paddock them, warm them up in colors, ect......I usually took the first string, and he dealt with owners and horses of lesser ability. I had the easy ones......And yes it was a reward of sorts to be listed as trainer of Hanover horses. Rubbed alot of lame horses and did my time to earn the title.......It just made his job easier.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanover1

I knew perfectly well why I was put down as trainer, and you see nothing in my post alluding to illicit acts, and my record speaks for itself. It was a matter of coming to an understanding exactly why....He was away alot, we ran satellite stables, and he needed a man in charge to enter horses, paddock them, warm them up in colors, ect......I usually took the first string, and he dealt with owners and horses of lesser ability. I had the easy ones......And yes it was a reward of sorts to be listed as trainer of Hanover horses. Rubbed alot of lame horses and did my time to earn the title.......It just made his job easier.

Your prior post: "For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss..." This statement is inconsistent with your current post, but that's okay.

The illicit act would be listing yourself as the trainer when reality you were not by your own admission - "...when in reality, someone else was in charge." I don't really care what you did. I was just surprised to see you post about it.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.

I could send you an article printed in Hoofbeats magazine outlining our relationship during an interview that was given in the mid 80s. It shows exactly why I was there, and my role in the barn. What it basicly boiled down to was when he wanted answers about daily situations, I was to provide them, as I was barn forman as well. Dealing with the help was one of my most time consuming chores. Making sure they did what we required, and if they did not, my ass was in a sling.......and that was often as he was a perfectionist.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Your prior post: "For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss..." This statement is inconsistent with your current post, but that's okay.

The illicit act would be listing yourself as the trainer when reality you were not by your own admission - "...when in reality, someone else was in charge." I don't really care what you did. I was just surprised to see you post about it.

It is not illegal to list an assistan trainer as trainer...how do you think these guys keep training when on suspensions?