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09-26-2012, 03:09 PM
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#46
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
I think that in the case of that race, the available money was the $16,400 with $2,400 available to NYbred winners from a breeder's fund or something. Looks like the actual purse was $14k and change. I'm not sure how the law deal with "available purse" versus "actual purse" or if the reference is to money that comes directly from the purse fund as opposed to the cumulative from all sources, or what... Just pointing out, perhaps incorrectly, that the 50% rule may apply to the "base purse" when I look at that sort of race.
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The "Value" of the race is some $14,000, but the "Purse" is $16,400 (see equibase chart for example). The regulation says "Purse". Technicality, but all the same, the claiming price is less that 50% of the potential moneys being offered.
New Noonan btw
http://tenoonan.com/2012/09/25/what-...for-ny-racing/
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09-26-2012, 06:25 PM
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#48
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You're just not thinking clearly if you think for one second NY racing gets better under CDI or Frank Stronach...
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A chill went up my spine when you mentioned Stronach. Please god don't let him get another major track.
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09-26-2012, 07:48 PM
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#49
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Working on 'Plan B'
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 593
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OTM Al
My question for the day is as follows. The State instituted the following claiming rule this past year as a result of the breakdowns at Aqueduct:
"On July 25, 2012, the New York Racing and Wagering Board approved a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to amend Section 4038.2 of 9 NYCRR which will provide that the minimum price for which a claim may be entered in a claiming race shall not be less then fifty percent the value of the purse for the race."
Race 5 at Finger Lakes on 9/25 had the following conditions
1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up | CLAIMING ( $8,000 ) | Purse: $16,400
EXACTA * TRIFECTA * SUPERFECTA (10 Cent Minimum) * DAILY DOUBLE (Races 5-6)
The question is twofold. First, how's your math? Second, why isn't the State going after FL?
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From the condition book:
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SUBSTITUTE RACE NO 3 CLAIMING PURSE $16,400. (PURSE INCLUDES $2,400 N.Y.S.T.B.D.F.) FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Three Year Olds 120 lbs. Older 124 lbs. Non-winners of two races since August 25 2 lbs. A race since then 4 lbs. CLAIMING PRICE $8,000 (Races where entered for $7,500 or less not considered) ONE MILE AND ONE SIXTEENTH
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Considering the race was in the published condition book with the above conditions, giving the state at least a few weeks to 'go after FL' before the race was even carded, it appears that the "$2,400 N.Y.S.T.B.D.F." is not being wholly (or at all) considered when determining the "value of the purse for the race" in relation to this rule.
The total amount paid out to the participants of the race was $14,684.
I always assumed that statebred and other 'extra' monies were always treated separately from base purse amounts for all kinds of calculations (like in determining how much in total purses the meet is contractually required to distribute among the participants, for example)- isn't that the standard? I didn't think tracks could just add in the extra statebred money and say, "There you go. We are meeting our purse obligations. Those of you with horses bred in other states- tough cookies!" But maybe they do. I have never sat down and added all of that up.
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__________________
'Keep yourself in the best of company and your horses in the worst.' H. Luro et al.
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09-26-2012, 07:55 PM
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#50
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 5k-claim
I always assumed that statebred and other 'extra' monies were always treated separately from base purse amounts for all kinds of calculations (like in determining how much in total purses the meet is contractually required to distribute among the participants, for example)- isn't that the standard? I didn't think tracks could just add in the extra statebred money and say, "There you go. We are meeting our purse obligations. Those of you with horses bred in other states- tough cookies!" But maybe they do. I have never sat down and added all of that up.
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I'm sure you are right, but it wasn't really the point as I said before. Finger Lakes is a track in New York. It has a casino and has had one for some time. Horses break down while racing and training there. The question is why the State isn't going after them and all the harness tracks as well. If the concern is for the horse, what gives here?
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09-26-2012, 08:01 PM
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#51
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
A chill went up my spine when you mentioned Stronach. Please god don't let him get another major track.
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He does have a grandstand on wheels, you know.
Could be there in time for the JCG.
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09-26-2012, 08:03 PM
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#52
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
You really think anyone at NYRWB is actually checking this?
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Aren't they the guys who failed to act - as was their specific purpose for existing - on the take out issue? The REAL root cause of the whole affair - another state agency failing to do one simple job?
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09-26-2012, 10:42 PM
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#53
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Working on 'Plan B'
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 593
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Aren't they the guys who failed to act - as was their specific purpose for existing - on the take out issue? The REAL root cause of the whole affair - another state agency failing to do one simple job?
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Can you tell us again what exactly they "failed to act" on in this instance?
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__________________
'Keep yourself in the best of company and your horses in the worst.' H. Luro et al.
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09-26-2012, 10:50 PM
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#54
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 5k-claim
Can you tell us again what exactly they "failed to act" on in this instance?
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They didn't do their job, i.e. catch the takeout problem.
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09-26-2012, 11:19 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
NY racing has generally have the largest pools because of its location. Generally it has better horses competing. As for it having bettable races, that is matter of opinion. The one thing there is no doubt about, It has the best internet personal doing the the broadcasts. I have two gripes about it. In the summer the run too many turf races for my liking. The inner track races at AQU in the last couple of years have become a joke with their short fields and heavy favorites with tons of late money coming on them.
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There is no such thing as "too many turf races"..
Larger fields and more route races are the signature of turf racing.
Where's the problem?
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09-26-2012, 11:29 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
NY racing has generally have the largest pools because of its location. Generally it has better horses competing. As for it having bettable races, that is matter of opinion. The one thing there is no doubt about, It has the best internet personal doing the the broadcasts. I have two gripes about it. In the summer the run too many turf races for my liking. The inner track races at AQU in the last couple of years have become a joke with their short fields and heavy favorites with tons of late money coming on them.
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Oh...NYRA tracks geographic location has little to do with the handle seeing as the majority is from off track.
August 4th. Saratoga. ON track handle was $5.39 million
All off track sources $19.7 million
Sat 9/22 Belmont...
On track handle $1.76 million
All off track sources...$10.87 million..
It is the quality of racing, horses and horsemen that attracts the handle for NYRA....
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09-26-2012, 11:32 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You're just not thinking clearly if you think for one second NY racing gets better under CDI or Frank Stronach...
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Based on Stronach's track record, he would take the NYRA tracks and turn them into Gulfstream Park.
No thanks.
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09-26-2012, 11:39 PM
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#58
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Working on 'Plan B'
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 593
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
They didn't do their job, i.e. catch the takeout problem.
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Yes, I heard about that before. Isn't that old news?
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By " Can you tell us again what exactly they 'failed to act' on in this instance?" I was referring to this thread:
Post 42 (OTM_AL)
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The question is twofold. First, how's your math? Second, why isn't the State going after FL?
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Post 43 (cj)
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You really think anyone at NYRWB is actually checking this?
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Post 44 (OTM_AL)
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Of course not. Just pointing out the hypocracy.
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Post 52 (Tom)
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Aren't they the guys who failed to act - as was their specific purpose for existing - on the take out issue?
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Hence my question.
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__________________
'Keep yourself in the best of company and your horses in the worst.' H. Luro et al.
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09-26-2012, 11:51 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 102
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OTM Al
I'm sure you are right, but it wasn't really the point as I said before. Finger Lakes is a track in New York. It has a casino and has had one for some time. Horses break down while racing and training there. The question is why the State isn't going after them and all the harness tracks as well. If the concern is for the horse, what gives here?
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Because Cuomo has clearly stated that he had disdain for the“bluebloods” of horseracing. You know…allthose bluebloods that run their horses on the Aqueduct inner all winter long.
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09-27-2012, 07:40 AM
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#60
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,858
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The state racing and wagering board is incompetent and they final to do their jobs. That would answer Al's question as to why they are not coming down on FL.
For future reference, anything run the state of NY is corrupt, crooked, incompetent, lazy, or all of the above. 
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