It's a Bird DQ? In the offing.........?

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by andymays

Does anyone here think the drug stuff has gone too far?

In the context in which you mean that, I seriously doubt it.

Originally Posted by andymays

What's the big deal?

What's the big deal with abiding by the word "prohibited"?

[andymays]

All Sports including Horse Racing have people that push the envelope.

Since I played a little baseball in my time I like to make these comparisons.

How many Pitchers are in the Hall of Fame that nicked up the ball before they tossed it? Are there any guys who are in the Hall that threw a spitter? How many guys are out of the batters box when hitting(they dig out the back line)? Ty Cobb intimidated the hell out of everyone and how many times did a second baseman miss a tag because he didn't want his face cut up by Cobb's cleats?

Is it cheating when a players steals the other teams signs? When a guy is on second base it's his duty to signal location to the batter if he can.

I know I'm in the minority on these issues but I can go on and on......

[Cadillakin]

Originally Posted by Bettowin

Why is Naproxen banned in horse racing? It's not Aleve that it is in question isn't it the Naprosyn or Naproxen? Was Naproxen abused in the past or what's the reason it is a banned substance?

I think the anti-drug policy is instituted not only to discourage cheating but perhaps more importantly, so as not to mask significant pain. A racing athlete who doesn't realize where pain exists, or the extent of his own injuries or discomfort, cannot adequately protect himself..

I think that's the gist of it..

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by andymays

All Sports including Horse Racing have people that push the envelope.

Since I played a little baseball in my time I like to make these comparisons.

How many Pitchers are in the Hall of Fame that nicked up the ball before they tossed it? Are there any guys who are in the Hall that threw a spitter? How many guys are out of the batters box when hitting(they dig out the back line)? Ty Cobb intimidated the hell out of everyone and how many times did a second baseman miss a tag because he didn't want his face cut up by Cobb's cleats?

Is it cheating when a players steals the other teams signs? When a guy is on second base it's his duty to signal location to the batter if he can.

I know I'm in the minority on these issues but I can go on and on......

It isn't cheated if you don't get caught?

If a pitcher got caught loading up a ball he would face a suspension.
The other examples you listed would not be considered cheating.

[Bettowin]

Will they say how much over the limit the horse tested? I did a bit of research and read where officials recommended that Naproxen not be administered 5 days before a race because it metabolizes slower than similar drugs. This was in 2006 and the previous recommendation was 3 days. Another tidbit that caught my eye was they wouldn't say what the limit was or how much Naproxen would result in a positive. I didn't find anything that said giving it to horses was detrimental in the long run other than masking obvious pain and injuries that might result from running without pain.

I also read horses were taken of the list of animals to be effectively treated with Naproxen because of COST. WTF?

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by Bettowin

I didn't find anything that said giving it to horses was detrimental in the long run

In humans, it's been shown to lead to a significant increase in the incidence of stroke and heart attack. I can't imagine it'd be any different for horses, and combined that with the stress of racing soon after a large dose, it would likely make the risk even greater.

[andymays]

I just thing we have reached a point where we are much more worried about Horses that people. Maybe it's political correctness gone amuck but when we use the human analogies the whole thing sounds a little absurd.

At what point do we stop racing and wagering?

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by andymays

I just thing we have reached a point where we are much more worried about Horses that people. Maybe it's political correctness gone amuck but when we use the human analogies the whole thing sounds a little absurd.

Let me see if I've got you right:

1) It's ok to cheat if you don't get caught
2) It's ok to break the rules and risk having your horse dropping dead during a race because after all, it's just a horse

Does that pretty much sum up your point of view? A simple yes or no will do.

[Bettowin]

Originally Posted by andymays

I just thing we have reached a point where we are much more worried about Horses that people. Maybe it's political correctness gone amuck but when we use the human analogies the whole thing sounds a little absurd.

At what point do we stop racing and wagering?

I think your comment "it was just Aleve" was a bit misleading. I doubt they gave the horse a tablet or two a couple of days before the race. Were you saying they actually gave the horse Aleve? Probably more like a large dose of an Aleve ingredient which is prohibited 5 days prior to racing?

Sure people are worried about the horses but aren't most drug rules put in place to protect the "integrity" of the game?

[DerbyTrail]

Originally Posted by Mineshaft

Its a Class 4 drug which is a serious offense.

That's incorrect. The classification scale goes in the other direction... Class 1's being the most serious and Class 5 being the least. The link below provides access to Chapter 11 of the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium's Model Rules and starting on page 4 you can edify yourself as to the Uniform Classification Guidelines:

http://www.rmtcnet.com/resources/Chapter_11_Model_Rules_1-09.PDF

For those who won't bother, here are the summaries of Classes 1-5:

(1) Class 1

Opiates, opium derivatives, synthetic opioids, psychoactive drugs, amphetamines and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) scheduled I and II drugs. Also found in this class are drugs which are potent stimulants of the nervous system. Drugs in this class have no generally accepted medical use in the racehorse and their pharmacological potential for altering the performance of a race is very high.

(2) Class 2

Drugs in this category have a high potential for affecting the outcome of a race. Most are not generally accepted as therapeutic agents in the racehorse. Many are products intended to alter consciousness or the psychic state of humans, and have no approved or indicated use in the horse. Some, such as injectable local anesthetics, have legitimate use in equine medicine, but should not be found in a racehorse.

(3) Class 3

Drugs in this class may or may not have an accepted therapeutic use in the horse. Many are drugs that affect the cardiovascular, pulmonary and autonomic nervous systems. They all have the potential of affecting the performance of a racehorse.

(4) Class 4

This category is comprised primarily of therapeutic medications routinely used in racehorses. These may influence performance, but generally have a more limited ability to do so.

(5) Class 5

Drugs in this category are therapeutic medications for which concentration limits have been established as well as certain miscellaneous agents. Included specifically are agents, which have very localized action only, such as anti-ulcer drugs and certain anti-allergenic drugs.

[Cadillakin]

Originally Posted by andymays

I just thing we have reached a point where we are much more worried about Horses that people. Maybe it's political correctness gone amuck but when we use the human analogies the whole thing sounds a little absurd.

At what point do we stop racing and wagering?

I think the opposite.. The horses give everything to us.. sometimes their lives. We have an obligation to take care of them...

IMO, racing and wagering will never stop, because horses love to run and people love to gamble... It may not be like it was.. but it will go on...

[andymays]

Originally Posted by ryesteve

Let me see if I've got you right:

1) It's ok to cheat if you don't get caught
2) It's ok to break the rules and risk having your horse dropping dead during a race because after all, it's just a horse

Does that pretty much sum up your point of view? A simple yes or no will do.

Without going into too much detail, I love animals and have alway had pets that because of age or sickness had to be put down. I am always there and cry like a baby when it happens.

We don't live in a perfect world. Isn't that what Heaven is supposed to be like. All who have tried to create Utopias have failed.

In Heaven nobody loses and all the Horses are always healthy!

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by ryesteve

What exactly are you advocating? That drug testing should be eliminated and trainers and vets should be able to pump whatever they want into the horses? I have no idea what you mean by "this has gone too far" when most people (who don't have a friend who stands to lose $300k) would say that policing and enforcement of drugging rules are abysmal.

Totally agree. I cant understand how things could ever be seen as "going too far" in terms of the drug rules and enforcement. The substance was banned and the trainer apparently went too far by apparently violating the rules. The idea that the current drug rules and enforcement poilicies are too strict seems very inaccurate to me......

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Totally agree. I cant understand how things could ever be seen as "going too far" in terms of the drug rules and enforcement. The substance was banned and the trainer apparently went too far by apparently violating the rules. The idea that the current drug rules and enforcement poilicies are too strict seems very inaccurate to me......

I respect everyones opinions on this subject and maybe I'm wrong to say it's gone too far.

I'd like everyone to think about the things they do in their own lives like taking an aspirin or Vicadin, or Xanex, or Motrin or whatever. As humans should we be required to stay home for 24 hours until these things were out of our systems? Are these drugs that harmfull when we take them once a month? We constantly do things or take things to improve our own performance don't we? God forbid anyone on the Forum should ever take Viagra!

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by andymays

I love animals

Then you should stop trying to rationalize the use of a risky, banned substance, when safer, legal alternatives are available.

Originally Posted by andymays

We constantly do things or take things to improve our own performance don't we? God forbid anyone on the Forum should ever take Viagra!

Are any of use having sex competitively? Haven't you ever heard Ron Jeremy complaining about how viagra has cheapened the porn business?