Horse player groups on At The Races - Now

[raybo]

Jeff,

What you have done with the site, so far, is exactly what I had envisioned when the discussion that evolved into HANA first started. We originally had some naysayers who said it had been tried before and failed, it would never work, you have to have membership fees, etc., etc., etc.

I, along with several others was stubborn and stood by my guns. We can cause change, but as you say, we must attack the status quo in numbers, lots of numbers.

HANA's #1 goal must be, and should have been from the beginning, grow membership, through a well thought out website and public exposure by any other means available.

As the previous membership tracker, I noticed that membership numbers took off only after some sort of public/forum exposure occurred. That was enough proof for me, to believe that exposure and advertising is the way to grow our membership numbers.

Until we become numbers in the thousands, very little impact will be gained, concerning the state of the current industry shortcomings.

Well done!

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

great post RR

I am going to remind some of a post from a past thread. I don't want to piss anybody off, but I thought this post was dead on. I appreciate everything these guys in the HANA group are doing, and I applaud them. But this thing has got to go big or not at all. That takes money, and fulltime work. Money I would think would be the easy part. Horse players don't mind spending money, we all know that. I agree with the comments on a full blown website etc. Good stuff. After the website is setup, I think the first item would be electing a board and a Paid membership drive. Then you could really get to work. Just my two cents.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...21&postcount=5

JR,
That was the second time you provided a link to that post of andicap’s, but perhaps -- in your own words -- you could explain in detail exactly how the money should be collected, within what IRS reporting requirements, and then used to accomplish exactly what?

If HANA has a fatal flaw, it's not that it doesn’t have money, it’s that there are too many both inside and out who are willing to wait for others to do something rather than seize the day themselves.

Applause sounds nice, but it doesn't get much done.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Indulto

JR,
That was the second time you provided a link to that post of andicap’s, but perhaps -- in your own words -- you could explain in detail exactly how the money should be collected, within what IRS reporting requirements, and then used to accomplish exactly what?

If HANA has a fatal flaw, it's not that it doesn’t have money, it’s that there are too many both inside and out who are willing to wait for others to do something rather than seize the day themselves.

Applause sounds nice, but it doesn't get much done.

Point well taken. I am just saying, in my opine........

1-Membership
2-Funds to form an organization collected from Membership
3-Andi's post is dead on.

Until you get 1 and 2 you aren't going to get much done.

Hiring an accountant would take care of collecting the funds etc. I am sure there is a Horseplayer out there somewhere who is a competent accountant.

In a nutshell, go big. Do it right.

Then set an agenda and pursue it.

[cj]

The lack of a web site is 100% my fault. Jeff stepped up from what I am catching up on now and that is greatly appreciated by me. I tried to do too many things at once and it just wasn't possible. I have also become pretty discouraged by the state of the game.

I thought once I retired from the military I'd smoothly transition into betting to supplement my income. It is proving to be possible, but due to the ridiculous state of our game right now, probably not worth the work and aggravation.

The menu of tracks that will take my money (yes, you read that right) is changing daily. The ridiculous odds swings at most tracks, due to the minuscule pool sizes and outdated technology, are pretty discouraging. Do we really need tracks where a horse that is 7 to 2 at post time pays $16 to win, or a horse that is 7 to 2 at post time pays $4.40? I saw both of these today. How is anyone supposed to make an informed decision in a game like this? Why do we need 27 pools on every race?

You want more? Ever try to get the latest scratches for all the tracks? Equibase is supposed to keep them up to date, but they miss many tracks throughout the day or are late posting them. Surface changes? Distance changes? Good luck finding those with any consistency.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the only places worth making a bet are New York and California.

Hopefully HANA can help change some of this. I wish I could say I will withhold my bets to help the cause, but in truth, I'll be boycotting most tracks because the product sucks. Had I done it a few years ago I'd probably have less grey hair and more money.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Point well taken. I am just saying, in my opine........

Originally Posted by JustRalph

1-Membership
2-Funds to form an organization collected from Membership
3-Andi's post is dead on.

Until you get 1 and 2 you aren't going to get much done.

Hiring an accountant would take care of collecting the funds etc. I am sure there is a Horseplayer out there somewhere who is a competent accountant.

In a nutshell, go big. Do it right.

Then set an agenda and pursue it.

It has proven difficult to recruit people from PA even without asking for money. How do you hire expertise you can't pay for? Would you be willing to pay for a membership prior to HANA's establishing a legitimate funding handling hierarchy? No-one claiming to have accounting/fundraising experience showed up early. Is someone available now?

I appreciate your response, JR, but you’ve really only offered generalities and not specifics – a problem typical of early HANA meetings. As far as andicap’s post is concerned, it’s no template for success, but rather a common sense warning of how hard the task being contemplated actually is. I have to say that his following passage was prophetic:

Originally Posted by andicap

… . You would need the right person to head the group: a diplomat who can reconcile the bickering factions that are sure to make up such an associatio; someone "presentable" to the powers that be so the group is not represented by some loudmouth gadfly but a cool-headed, smooth, professionally looking executive type. Like Marvin Miller with the baseball union.

Originally Posted by andicap

The problem is that horseplayers are too selfish and unorganized to ever get together. Look at the discord on this board alone and in this thread. Horseplayers are independent and feisty by nature. Look at all the libertarian types on this board who distrust authority.

Some horseplayer in Chicago is going to trust some group started by people he doesn't know back in New York or Boston or Columbus or Tulsa. Maybe if you got a big name involved you've got half a shot. …

No one with website experience was available to do anything back then either. If not for DT, CG, and chick, there wouldn't be a blog or even a URL if not for GT. Somehow things managed to catch fire anyway, but then few were either willing or available to fan the flames. I don’t know if the team was ever expanded to use new members outside PA or new to the board.

I think the very next things HANA should do before anyone invests any more of their resources is 1) take the time and thoroughly debate the mission statement and revise it as necessary to make sure everyone is on the same page, and 2) empanel three people to resolve all disputes and keep everyone one aware of contending issues and their resolution

cj and/or JP, what do you anticipate the website accomplishing that the blog doesn’t? Will it eventually deploy some of the same functionality of this message board software like polls and discussion threads?

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Indulto

Would you be willing to pay for a membership prior to HANA's establishing a legitimate funding handling hierarchy?

Sure I would. What is your plan for membership? 20-40 bucks a year? What the hell, lots of guys throw that away on lunch or a 20-1 shot. You might recall I was very gung-ho and involved in the first early group that started.......... I eased myself out of the way when certain events occurred. But I in know way would not support what HANA is and is doing so far. Stick that membership fee up on a website and I would be glad to join and pay.

You make several other good points. The one thing I would have jumped on was Steve Byk offering to be a "spokesman" I wouldn't have left the place without offering him some type of position or access to being involved in HANA. This guy and his radio show on the side of HANA could be a deal breaker. He would have added credibility etc..........as far as I know he is well respected and he has the bully pulpit of the radio show.

I am a supporter 100%. Carry on.......

As an example of what can be done long term, check out this website. These guys do it right and have for a long time. Like 70 years..........

http://www.aopa.org/

Not exactly a perfect comparison..........but an interesting one.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Sure I would. What is your plan for membership? 20-40 bucks a year? What the hell, lots of guys throw that away on lunch or a 20-1 shot. You might recall I was very gung-ho and involved in the first early group that started.......... I eased myself out of the way when certain events occurred. But I in know way would not support what HANA is and is doing so far. Stick that membership fee up on a website and I would be glad to join and pay.

You make several other good points. The one thing I would have jumped on was Steve Byk offering to be a "spokesman" I wouldn't have left the place without offering him some type of position or access to being involved in HANA. This guy and his radio show on the side of HANA could be a deal breaker. He would have added credibility etc..........as far as I know he is well respected and he has the bully pulpit of the radio show.

I am a supporter 100%. Carry on.......

As an example of what can be done long term, check out this website. These guys do it right and have for a long time. Like 70 years..........

http://www.aopa.org/

Not exactly a perfect comparison..........but an interesting one.

I not only recall your involvement, but was also extremely disappointed that you weren't this time around.

What I've always advocated is free membership with only e-mail address and state requested. It hadn't occurred to me earlier, but another priority of HANA should be enabling every resident of every state to be able to wager on horseracing over the internet in the privacy of their own home. This is another "unfairness" issue.

I would definitely NOT pay team members. There's already a lot of talent at HANA willing to work for the cause, they just need additional capable help to spell them. I'm too far behind the technology curve or I would have loved to have been involved in that part of it. HANA does need an organizer, but not a despot. Anybody come to mind?

Once HANA is functional again, they might want to look at ways to reach out like e-mail campaigns through PA, but also racing book vendor/publisher lists if commercially available. Would HANA need to be a not-for-profit company with all the attending reporting requirements in order to solicit or even accept funding/reimbursement for specific projects? They certainly need people with the appropriate knowledge or the time to research everything. It was less than two handfuls of people that worked on getting it as far as it did

BTW I think Derby Trail also deserves kudos for plugging the paceadvantage board (and PA himself) on his radio show. HANA couldn't have happened or been maintained without PA's support. I can only imagine how much money he saved HANA.

I've started looking into the costs of hosting a website and purchasing a JelSoft license. Maybe I could still learn to program in PHP, but I doubt it would be the best use of my declining capacity. At this point I'd consider helping fund a shoestring operation to try and organize anonymous non-professional bettors to ignore the "Ladies' Classic" and take advantage of the Filly Friday backlash.

[DerbyTrail]

Quick note to thank John for coming on "At the Races". Was pleased to have him for an initial introductory visit to get the basics of the H.A.N.A. concept out to listeners... and I thought he did great considering all there was to discuss on the topics of concern. The beauty of having 15 hours a week on Sirius is that HANA's platform and efforts can be explained and fleshed out without being rushed. As I pledged, ATR is totally available to help those behind the Association keep fans/players informed on the issues it seeks to address and its' initiatives. Am happy to help in any way I can.

Steve

[BillW]

Originally Posted by DerbyTrail

Quick note to thank John for coming on "At the Races". Was pleased to have him for an initial introductory visit to get the basics of the H.A.N.A. concept out to listeners... and I thought he did great considering all there was to discuss on the topics of concern. The beauty of having 15 hours a week on Sirius is that HANA's platform and efforts can be explained and fleshed out without being rushed. As I pledged, ATR is totally available to help those behind the Association keep fans/players informed on the issues it seeks to address and its' initiatives. Am happy to help in any way I can.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. We really appreciate the opportunity to introduce ourselves to your audience and your support. It will be a long haul and we'll certainly need all the help we can get.

[DeanT]

Yes, thanks for that Steve. Really nice for you to offer such a fledgling group some time. Not many people would, especially since many of the ideas of HANA tend to be against the status-quo.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

great post RR

I am going to remind some of a post from a past thread. I don't want to piss anybody off, but I thought this post was dead on. I appreciate everything these guys in the HANA group are doing, and I applaud them. But this thing has got to go big or not at all. That takes money, and fulltime work. Money I would think would be the easy part. Horse players don't mind spending money, we all know that. I agree with the comments on a full blown website etc. Good stuff. After the website is setup, I think the first item would be electing a board and a Paid membership drive. Then you could really get to work. Just my two cents.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...21&postcount=5

A man of his word.

Thanks for the donation Ralph.