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Old 11-27-2007, 08:08 PM   #16
rrpic6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDee
I assume you read the entire article including the following:



As long as the business leaders in this country continue to export all possible jobs to China and India we will continue on the road to being a country with 4 classes of people.

The rich
The people who shop at Wal-Mart
The people who work at Wal-Mart
The people who apply for Jobs at Wal-Mart
Ralph:
As far as I know..Kucinich is the only Presidential Candidate in favor of repealing NAFTA. So how is he to blame for this race to the bottom? We see 1st hand how 8 years of Bush economics has further spread the gap in the hav's and hav nots.
BTW: WTAM in Cleveland has Casino Windsor ads. The plumeting American dollar is forcing Canada to try and lure us over the border for EVEN money.

RR
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ljb
Again lottsa words.
Have you ever been out of Ohio ? Columbus is not the only place in this country that has bullshit taxes. See Jr, communities must provide certain basic services police protection, fire protection, utilities etc. If they fail to provide these services they fail and are no longer communities. Step two they must have funds to provide those services. Where they get the money is the primary contentious issue. You have gone to length to tell us what you don't like about Columbus's methods of obtaining these funds. Where do you suggest they get the moneys needed to provide such services ?
Give me a break. I have lived in eight different states over the last 25 years. I have owned property and paid property taxes in 6. I have lived in California (Twice), Maine, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Ohio, New York (only about 4 months though) and Vermont. So don't treat me like some bumpkin. I of all people understand the tax issues on the local level. I have worked for 5 different municipalities and two different counties.

I understand the "basic services" better than just about anybody. I can tell you about money being washed away in the rivers, on vehicles for family members of politicians.........misappropriation of funds etc. I won't go on. It wouldn't matter. We could talk about a dozen different ways tax money is wasted. And that wouldn't even get us into reasons why the government shouldn't be doing half the stuff they do now. Schools are a whole different ball of wax............. But I will stop............you don't want to hear it.

I suggest they get the money from taxes. But we are over taxed and we get almost nothing back for it. They waste our money like it has no end. And nobody gives a good God Damn!!! And we are powerless to stop it. Because people like you never heard of a tax that you weren't for.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrpic6
Ralph:
As far as I know..Kucinich is the only Presidential Candidate in favor of repealing NAFTA. So how is he to blame for this race to the bottom? We see 1st hand how 8 years of Bush economics has further spread the gap in the hav's and hav nots.
BTW: WTAM in Cleveland has Casino Windsor ads. The plumeting American dollar is forcing Canada to try and lure us over the border for EVEN money.

RR
You know, you finally found one thing I have in common with Kucinich. The NAFTA issue. But the Dems are about to try and elect one of the biggest supporters of NAFTA? Hillary and Bill were told over and over what was going to happen and they ignored it. And don't say Hillary had nothing to do with it. She wants to talk about her experience on these issues while at Bill's side for 8 years, then she should be taking the heat on NAFTA right along with him.

Remember Ross Perot talking about that giant sucking sound? (Click here) You know, the one where he said the noise would be American jobs flying out of the country? Remember Clinton's response to that? He said it wouldn't happen. Well time has proven that that little bastard with the big ears was right!

I hope he saved his charts...............

You talk about the haves and have nots. I agree there is widening gap in the middle. But how can you then be for repealing the tax cuts? This will provide disincentives for business to expand and further exacerbate the job market for those in the middle. You can't have it both ways. Remove the tax cuts and proclaim you are helping the middle. You are just transferring control over the money to those in Washington..........which is never a good idea.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JustRalph
Give me a break. I have lived in eight different states over the last 25 years. I have owned property and paid property taxes in 6. I have lived in California (Twice), Maine, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Ohio, New York (only about 4 months though) and Vermont. So don't treat me like some bumpkin. I of all people understand the tax issues on the local level. I have worked for 5 different municipalities and two different counties.
Sorry didn't mean to disturb you. Interesting to hear that you have worked for municipalities. Were you an employee or a contractor ?
Quote:
I understand the "basic services" better than just about anybody. I can tell you about money being washed away in the rivers, on vehicles for family members of politicians.........misappropriation of funds etc. I won't go on. It wouldn't matter. We could talk about a dozen different ways tax money is wasted. And that wouldn't even get us into reasons why the government shouldn't be doing half the stuff they do now.
I have worked in private industry, public government, charity and volunteer efforts. I have yet to find an environment that does not have waste, misappropriation of funds deadbeats etc. Should we just stop all activity ?
Quote:
Schools are a whole different ball of wax............. But I will stop............you don't want to hear it.
Schools, i am reminded of the cliche " give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for life" and then many do not want to fund the teaching ???
Quote:
I suggest they get the money from taxes. But we are over taxed and we get almost nothing back for it. They waste our money like it has no end. And nobody gives a good God Damn!!! And we are powerless to stop it. Because people like you never heard of a tax that you weren't for.
A few weeks back I voted against a millage proposal in my community for school repairs. Can't see them building $400,000 offices for our new school board and neglecting the schools themselves.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljb
Were you an employee or a contractor ? I have worked in private industry, public government, charity and volunteer efforts. I have yet to find an environment that does not have waste, misappropriation of funds deadbeats etc. Should we just stop all activity ? A few weeks back I voted against a millage proposal in my community for school repairs. Can't see them building $400,000 offices for our new school board and neglecting the schools themselves.
I was an employee. Never a contractor. I got recruited away a few times and moved for more money and better position a couple of times. Twice I moved out of state. Never got fired, in case you are wondering.

I don't have a problem with taxes at a fair level. But when States and Municipalities start doing things they should never do, or be involved with, they are wasting our money. They never do it efficiently, no matter the task. You say you have seen the same things I have........and you don't feel the same way I do. I don't know why, but it irks me to no end when I see that kind of waste of public money.

Good for you on your voting against a school levy. I haven't voted for a School Levy ever. I personally think public schools should be closed.

We aren't going to change any minds here, but it is a hot button of mine.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:42 PM   #21
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If you are interested in the ruination of a great state........this series might interest you.

I know there are Ohioians on the board............I thought I would post a link to this series

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...V.html?sid=101

Ohio's cities, as we have historically known them, are dead. Forget the past. Except for Columbus, Ohio's big cities have endured vast population and job losses.

City leaders realize the glory days are not coming back. They are working on strategies to reinvent, transform or do an extreme makeover of thier towns in order to compete in the new global economy.

The Dispatch takes a look at the issues, through the eyes of those living in those cities, at Ohio's urban plight.


On the brink
Can Ohio's big cities be saved?

Sunday, December 2, 2007 3:47 AM
By Mark Niquette, Alan Johnson and Joe Hallett




The pictures are old, faded, black and white.

But the vibrancy of Ohio's once-thriving big cities remains crystal clear. You see it in faces in the crush of people outside W.T. Grant's in downtown Youngstown in 1952, the frenetic shift change at B.F. Goodrich Co. in Akron in the 1940s, a bustling street market in Dayton in 1910.

Most of the stores, factories and people in those photos are long gone, reminders of an era when Ohio's large cities were powerhouses. Their workers helped build America with the steel, cars and tires they made. Their entrepreneurs gave the world powered flight, the automobile self-starter and other inventions.

Today, however, most of Ohio's seven largest cities are teetering.

With the exception of Columbus, they have shed more than one-third of their population and watched as income, home values and other economic indicators dropped below national averages while poverty, job losses, crime and foreclosures skyrocketed.

In the booming 1950s, the state's seven big cities boasted a combined 450,000 manufacturing jobs. Fifty years later, only a third of those jobs remained.

"Our urban core cities are legacy costs of the great industrial age," said state Rep. Larry Wolpert, a Hilliard Republican who led a 2004 study of Ohio's cities.

Some residents who fled the decline and struggling school systems for the suburbs or rapidly growing townships say they don't need Ohio's dying big cities anymore, except for an occasional ball game or museum visit.

But experts warn that Ohio is ignoring the urban plight at its own peril. They say that today's inner-city problems are spreading to the suburbs, as a rotten core eventually makes the whole apple bad.

~much, much more at the link~

Audio on Excessive Government
http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/con.../katz/gov.html

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...ies/index.html

Meanwhile, townships have been empowered by the General Assembly, which has granted them more authority to rebuff city annexation attempts, regulate strip clubs and control zoning issues.

"In my opinion, this group has been totally, 100 percent set on destroying central cities in Ohio," Plusquellic charged, referring to legislative Republicans.

State Rep. Kevin DeWine of Fairborn, deputy chairman of the Ohio Republican Party, said the mayors' criticism is unfair in view of the hundreds of millions of dollars lawmakers have allocated for urban projects and schools. High city income taxes and poor schools, not home rule issues, have caused the middle class flight from cities, DeWine said.

"It's the expected response -- blame somebody else for your own problems," DeWine said, referring to the mayors' criticism. "They have only to look in the mirror to find out why their cities are suffering. I'm not going to let somebody blame us for the failing school districts in our urban areas or the high income tax rates that people are trying to get away from."

Findings
Except for Columbus, Ohio's big cities have endured vast population and job losses, but now city leaders realize the glory days aren't coming back.
A key reason the plight of Ohio's major cities can't be ignored: Their problems will continue to spread to the suburbs and beyond.
Cities are adopting unique strategies to reverse years of decline, but they remain hindered by crime and poor-performing school districts.
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Last edited by JustRalph; 12-02-2007 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:42 AM   #22
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In the booming 1950s, the state's seven big cities boasted a combined 450,000 manufacturing jobs. Fifty years later, only a third of those jobs remained
In the 70's the biggest employer in the state was GM, Now it Wal-Mart. It's all about good jobs with decent wages and benefits. Without jobs there is nothing ANY of politicians (rep, dem, lib, con) can do to change the decline.

Keep moving the work to Mexico, India, China, and any place else where you can get workers for ten cents and hour with no benefits and more and more of the cities and states in this country will look like Ohio.

This economy is based on consumer spending. When you eliminate the good paying jobs you are also eliminating the consumers who can afford all the goods and services.

But, lets just keep telling ourselves on how good things are in the "good ole USA".
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:01 AM   #23
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Good post MikeDee,
You have stated my main concern regarding the conditions in the good ol USA. Concise and to the point.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:48 PM   #24
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Then answer for me ..........why are we about to elect a person who was in on NAFTA? A person who still refuses to say it was bad for America?

Oh yeah, because she is a Dem..............
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:20 PM   #25
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The legacy of the last dem presidency - the growth of terrorism and NAFYA paving the way for job to leave. And a recession.

Got milk?
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JustRalph
Then answer for me ..........why are we about to elect a person who was in on NAFTA? A person who still refuses to say it was bad for America?

Oh yeah, because she is a Dem..............
Hillary was not and is not my personal choice for President. On one of these threads I said she is a moderate Republican. She like many others is on the take of corporate powers. However she is the most moderate of all Republicans running therefore she will get my vote if it comes to that.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ljb
Hillary was not and is not my personal choice for President. On one of these threads I said she is a moderate Republican. She like many others is on the take of corporate powers. However she is the most moderate of all Republicans running therefore she will get my vote if it comes to that.
That's hardcore dude....are you sure you've never been to the Dem Underground site?
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:25 AM   #28
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never been to the site, perhaps you could post a link and i will check it out.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:56 AM   #29
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

US mortgage crisis creates ghost town

Jan 27 01:31 PM US/Eastern

The streets are empty. Trash rustles down the road past rusted barbecues, abandoned furniture, sagging homes and gardens turned to weed.
This is Shaker Heights, a suburb of Cleveland and a town ravaged by the subprime mortgage crisis roiling the United States.

Faded "for sale" signs sit in front of deserted houses. The residents are gone, either in search of new jobs after the factories shut down, or in shame after being evicted for missing their mortgage payments.

A red, white and blue American flag flies over windows and doors which have been boarded up to keep the drug dealers away.

Thieves have stripped many homes of the plumbing, the doors, the windows, the aluminum siding.

The police station parking lot is full. The officers, who have seen their numbers triple since 2006, are coming back from their rounds. They speak of installing alarms in some of the homes claimed by squatters.

~more at the link~
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:16 PM   #30
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Same in Stockton, CA as shown on 60 Minutes over the weekend.
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