New Regulations For Tax Withholding Passed

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Too much to ask, but they could have allowed aggregation of tickets bought at the SAME WINDOW within a certain timeframe to be aggregated. (better yet, consecutive tickets, easy to document with serialization on the ticket)

The single ticket rule is primitive.

Currently 6 bets can be made on a ticket. It would be a simple fix by increasing that number to one more suited to today's bettors.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Currently 6 bets can be made on a ticket. It would be a simple fix by increasing that number to one more suited to today's bettors.

That is good to know...! I'll try it with a teller.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Currently 6 bets can be made on a ticket. It would be a simple fix by increasing that number to one more suited to today's bettors.

Which bets are you referring to...? I tried p4's with the teller but 3x3 inch dimension of standard ticket slip will not allow more than one P4 matrix at a time.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Which bets are you referring to...? I tried p4's with the teller but 3x3 inch dimension of standard ticket slip will not allow more than one P4 matrix at a time.

I have no idea. That information was in the release you referenced in your opening post.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by AndyC

You beg the question, what is the caveman ticket problem?

I've been known to bet more than a few multi-race wagers.

If you put every single horse you like no matter how much you like them in each leg (one ticket), you'll have a caveman ticket that doesn't weight how much you like or dislike a particular horse in any given leg. I'm pretty sure you at least have a peripheral knowledge of this. If you don't, you should stop playing multirace wagers.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

If you put every single horse you like no matter how much you like them in each leg (one ticket), you'll have a caveman ticket that doesn't weight how much you like or dislike a particular horse in any given leg. I'm pretty sure you at least have a peripheral knowledge of this. If you don't, you should stop playing multirace wagers.

Thanks for the kind words and the advice.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I read an internal communique today, don't know which track it applies to but likely at least for California tracks and OTB outlets...I'll relay what it said....

"On Thursday, September 28, 2017, we will implement the updated tax rules that were recently adopted by the U.S. Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

Our tote system is approximately 45 days away from implementing this new tax code. Therefore, at this time we will continue to process all winning wagers as we have done so previously.

It has been estimated that 90% of the wagers that were previously processed as reportable to the IRS will now no longer be reportable to the IRS as taxable winnings. We are therefore going to audit all IRS transactions (W-2G forms) on a daily basis. The winners that no longer meet the new tax qualifications will be receiving a letter (and a refund check for the withholding amount) stating the status of the wager(s) in question.

If it is determined that the wager(s) is no longer reportable to the IRS, we will destroy the completed W-2G form and NOT report the winnings to the IRS."

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

The downside of this is for non-ADW players, they need to aggregate their combinations on a single ticket, but for multi-race horizontals this is not an optimal betting strategy...most of the more experienced players have many tickets based on various alternatives of singles and spreads....

...So it forces us to use electronic tracking systems of one form or another to get the full benefit of betting into pools with multiple and different tickets....they do this they say because of the potential for fraud but it really is not fair for everyone yet...

I wonder what percentage of total exotics betting handle is run through ADW's like TVG and the rest of them...? Are there any ways to know how much is done electronically versus using a clerk or machine at the track or OTB yourself...?

[LemonSoupKid]

If you cash a 20k ticket which had a base of $100, they pay you 20k and you walk away, right? Let's be real, this is basically what people want to know.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Thanks for the kind words and the advice.

No problem.

[VigorsTheGrey]

"(2)
Definition of a reportable gambling winning and determination of amount
subject to backup withholding. For purposes of withholding under section 3406, a reportable gambling winning is any gambling winning subject to information reporting under section 6041.

A gambling winning (other than a winning from bingo, keno, or slot machines) is a reportable gambling
winning only if the amount paid with respect to the wager is $600 or more and if the proceeds are at least 300 times as large as the amount wagered."


From the link in post 1. Page 18.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

"(2)
Definition of a reportable gambling winning and determination of amount
subject to backup withholding. For purposes of withholding under section 3406, a reportable gambling winning is any gambling winning subject to information reporting under section 6041.

A gambling winning (other than a winning from bingo, keno, or slot machines) is a reportable gambling
winning only if the amount paid with respect to the wager is $600 or more and if the proceeds are at least 300 times as large as the amount wagered."


From the link in post 1. Page 18.

Don't confuse backup withholding and regular withholding on winnings. Section 3406 refers to backup withholding.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

If you cash a 20k ticket which had a base of $100, they pay you 20k and you walk away, right? Let's be real, this is basically what people want to know.

I'll give another hypothetical: We go to the Breeders Cup. The $1 pick 4 pays $13k, which I cashed on a $1 ticket wheel with 72 combos. Since this is less than $21,600 + 72, the teller hands over $13k cash. Does anything else happen?

[VigorsTheGrey]

The way I see it reporting starts at 300-1 AND $600.
Withholding at 300-1 AND $5000.
The total amount wagered into the pool by the bettor is considered.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

I'll give another hypothetical: We go to the Breeders Cup. The $1 pick 4 pays $13k, which I cashed on a $1 ticket wheel with 72 combos. Since this is less than $21,600 + 72, the teller hands over $13k cash. Does anything else happen?

Yes, the way I understand it, your winnings are reportable but nothing is withheld at the time of cashing. The net proceeds are still taxable. Am I wrong here...?