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Old 10-17-2017, 10:18 PM   #196
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Effective Takeout "Might" Be a Contributing Factor

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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
I suspect a substantial percentage of trifecta handle at Parx really isn't at 30%...

Factor in rebates and I'd guess a lot that handle is somewhere in the 9% to 13% range (net effective takeout.)

EDIT: proximity beat me to it.


-jp

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At most ADWs (who offer rebates) and over the spectrum of different tracks on their wagering menu, the EFFECTIVE takeout rates for a given player are going to be in a relatively close range of each other. Two very critical aspects which will lead to exceptions are when tracks have significantly different Host Fees, and/or when Source Market Fees apply.

I am sure it would not be the sole reason, or even the main reason, to account for the large differences in trifecta pool amounts between Parx and Indiana Downs, but I can not help but wonder if for certain price-sensitive players, Parx offers the much better value. For example, I am aware of one specific ADW where my EFFECTIVE takeout rate on trifectas with Parx is more than 8.5% lower than on trifectas than with Indiana Downs.

Me thinks the above two mentioned aspects are major contributors here.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:48 PM   #197
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i know amwager doesn't even take indiana; possibly others don't too so that could make a difference as well?
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Old 10-18-2017, 01:30 PM   #198
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So let's get this straight! There are individuals who support the boycott of Keenland, but are okay with betting on Parx because they get huge rebates.

I think that sums that mindset of many bettors! Perhaps if they lobbied for elimination of rebates, then we could have lower takeout for everyone.
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Old 10-18-2017, 01:35 PM   #199
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So let's get this straight! There are individuals who support the boycott of Keenland, but are okay with betting on Parx because they get huge rebates.

I think that sums that mindset of many bettors! Perhaps if they lobbied for elimination of rebates, then we could have lower takeout for everyone.
I agree with this entire post.

the whole rebate thing skews the discussion.
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:31 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
I agree with this entire post.

the whole rebate thing skews the discussion.
Why would you boycott a track where you get a good rate? You are getting much better "net" betting tracks with higher takeouts than Keeneland than you are betting Keeneland. It actually does make sense. Keeneland raised the takeout and has high signal fees.

I'm not defending rebates. I think they are terrible for the game. If lower takeout is so great, than it should be great for everyone. But that is about 10 steps removed from something your everyday horseplayer can do anything about. Why tracks realize that lower take for whales generates more churn and more revenue but don't realize it would for everyone is something I can't explain or even fathom.

Last edited by cj; 10-18-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:36 PM   #201
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I agree with this entire post.

the whole rebate thing skews the discussion.

Rebates are a still a dirty secret, especially with special deals between high volume players and tracks. The lack of transparency is another reason to doubt the credibility of the game. One major reason I dropped almost 90% of my wagering activity is my inability to obtain rebates (I live in Las Vegas). Of course, I could set up dual residence in another state, but it seems like too much work.

One problem I have with special rebates is the nature of the parimutuel system. The assumption is everybody is getting the same odds. Most players are astounded when I tell them some players obtain 20% rebates on trifectas or superfectas at PARX.

However, I do not think it is hypocritical to argue for lower takeout while receiving rebates. There is a difference between what is realistic and what is ideal. Most players spearheading takeout movements genuinely want EVERYBODY to have lower takeout. They realize it would help themselves, newer and inexperienced players, and the industry as a whole. However, to stay in the game they gladly take rebates.

If the game is to truly grow, it needs to focus on universal takeout reductions, thus reducing or eliminating the need for special rebate deals. Alternatively, they could allow exchange wagering, so players could bypass the parimutuel system and pay lower juice.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #202
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Thought for sure they'd be up with a P6 carryover.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:36 PM   #203
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:08 PM   #204
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https://twitter.com/o_crunk/status/920762338227163137

Thought for sure they'd be up with a P6 carryover.
Is that right? I also thought there would be no way they would be down today w/a pick 6 carryover
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:58 PM   #205
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i brought up the rebates (and my own adw not taking ind) as part(s) of a possible explanation as to why parx could possibly have a higher triple handle than ind, NOT to be vilified for betting a track (parx) that I don't even play.

I do confess to betting penn national but I don't think that makes me a bad person. I grew up there, pen exposed me to OUR game, and i'm a night person who enjoys playing night tracks.

I apologize for any confusion.
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:04 PM   #206
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:26 PM   #207
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I thought handle was getting ready to turn positive for the last week of the meet. That is good news and a little surprising to me.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:04 PM   #208
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I thought handle was getting ready to turn positive for the last week of the meet. That is good news and a little surprising to me.
they are getting their butts kicked, they should be up 10% so this is a substantial amount of loss when you factor that in.

Just need to carry this over in the spring meet and it will send a real message.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:06 PM   #209
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Played a round of golf this afternoon in gorgeous weather here in NJ.

It's getting easier with each passing day to skip Keeneland.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:12 PM   #210
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Played a round of golf this afternoon in gorgeous weather here in NJ.

It's getting easier with each passing day to skip Keeneland.
Good for you!
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