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Old 10-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #31
elysiantraveller
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Originally Posted by TJDave View Post
Impossible.

There is no there, there.
The dude stacks lies better than IHOP stacks hot cakes...
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:03 PM   #32
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A "key" ally, using that term extremely loosely, who owes its very existence to the United States is free to carry out political assassination with impunity?
Gimmee a break Jake.
Political assassinations take place every day around the world.
The only reason we know about this one is in this case he's a news reporter/journalist.
The MSM media is trying to show that Trump has a war against the Media.
If he doesn't do something to the Saudis that will prove it. Right?
No - let more rational heads prevail.
America has no business in this death - or a myriad of others around the world that occur throughout the year.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:15 PM   #33
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Gimmee a break Jake.
Political assassinations take place every day around the world.
The only reason we know about this one is in this case he's a news reporter/journalist.
The MSM media is trying to show that Trump has a war against the Media.
If he doesn't do something to the Saudis that will prove it. Right?
No - let more rational heads prevail.
America has no business in this death - or a myriad of others around the world that occur throughout the year.
What point is it you think I'm trying to make here? I think you're missing it. All I've said is this is a mess politically for the United States. You are trying to manufacture an argument. I guess I'll give you one in a minute.

Saying the only reason this is a big deal because he was a journalist is totally missing the point.

I don't really care about the guy one bit but the problem is the Saudi's have their hand caught in the cookie jar. They have to pay a price for a very high profile murder they just carried out.

Call it "SAD!" they got caught. Call it the cost of doing business. The United States cannot be a country that condones political murder throughout the world... sure as shit not as publicly as this.

Now to the argument though: This Administration is a model of inefficiency.

Don't worry though the Trump Administration is fully deployed to deal with it... no way they could mess this up too... oh wait we got a tweet...

The incompetency is astounding.

Their inability to competently react to a brewing non-crisis is astounding.

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Old 10-16-2018, 04:27 PM   #34
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America has no business in this death - or a myriad of others around the world that occur throughout the year.

Yes, make America great again by standing for nothing and falling for anything!


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Old 10-16-2018, 04:50 PM   #35
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Yes, make America great again by standing for nothing and falling for anything!


What does OUR interfering in this do to help US?
That reporter KNEW what he was walking into.
You can't fix stupid.

We stand for what is good for US, not for idiots.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:16 PM   #36
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What does OUR interfering in this do to help US?
That reporter KNEW what he was walking into.
You can't fix stupid.

We stand for what is good for US, not for idiots.
You guys are not getting this... it creates a crises of credibility for the United States.

When it come to foreign policy the best way to get people killed is create doubt among your rivals as to how you may react to X or Y.

The United States is a global hyperpower and key exporter of human rights and life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. It cannot sit by and let countries act in ways contrary to its mission without repercussions.

Had this guy not been a "somebody" or the Saudi's we even mildly competent it wouldn't be an issue. Hell at least Putin has some Panache when he's killing journalist whether its a car accident or "I don't know how that arsenic go there."

The United States simply can't let a murder like this go unpunished because doing so will create further problems down the road for us politically. How many dollars in weapons is the next life worth, and the next, and the next.

It sucks but our hands should be tied and we have to do something to maintain our credibility.

Remember when Obama created that redline in Syria and ignored it and WE ALL CRUSHED HIM.

This is sorta one of those moments again. Nobody says we need to bombs away... but we do have to act.

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Old 10-16-2018, 05:27 PM   #37
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Remember when Obama created that redline in Syria and ignored it and WE ALL CRUSHED HIM.
Totally different scenario.
And Trump did not draw a pink line anywhere.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:56 PM   #38
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You guys are not getting this... it creates a crises of credibility for the United States.
You're not getting it.
The guy is only a somebody because the media says so.
He's one of perhaps a 100 political assassinations around the world every year.
If the US gets involved with all of them, what a fine kettle of fish that would be.
This is not an incident which creates a crisis of credibility for America, except in the MSM minds.
The rest of us don't give a shite.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #39
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Totally different scenario.
And Trump did not draw a pink line anywhere.
Its not though.

It's literally the exact same thing. The United States does not condone political murder. Unless we want to abandon that as a foreign policy plank we have to enforce some sort of punitive measure.

That doesn't mean Pompeo can't say, "hey we don't like doing this and were sorry but this is the way the cookie has to crumble for now."

But we still have to something.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:00 PM   #40
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You're not getting it.
The guy is only a somebody because the media says so.
He's one of perhaps a 100 political assassinations around the world every year.
If the US gets involved with all of them, what a fine kettle of fish that would be.
This is not an incident which creates a crisis of credibility for America, except in the MSM minds.
The rest of us don't give a shite.
prec·e·dent
noun
ˈpresəd(ə)nt/Submit
1.
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

You keep arguing about the guy. "But the guy, the guy..."

Pro Tip: Nobody gives a shit about "the guy."

My reason why this is a mess is literally in the title of this thread.

We can't have Allies out there whacking civilians without even the slightest attempt at plausible deniability and expect to have credible policy. Pointblankperiod.

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Old 10-16-2018, 09:04 PM   #41
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What was going on in Syria has NOTHING in common with this idiot reporter. Nothing.

This was one guy who brought it on himself by being stupid.
End of story.

To waste our time on it is stupid.

IF he has been a contributor to FOX instead of WasPo, do you think it would have made the headlines?
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:35 PM   #42
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What was going on in Syria has NOTHING in common with this idiot reporter. Nothing.

This was one guy who brought it on himself by being stupid.
End of story.

To waste our time on it is stupid.

IF he has been a contributor to FOX instead of WasPo, do you think it would have made the headlines?
The guy went to the consulate to get papers so he could get married. He was murdered and hacked up for his troubles.

Why are you attacking the victim?
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:43 PM   #43
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When you waffle in your convictions in Foreign Policy... more people die.

Exhibit A (and your personal favorite): The Nazi Invasion of Czechoslovakia.

The United States Foreign Policy is shaped by all kinds of thresholds. They are very well articulated.

Mutually assured destruction.
Genocide is a No-no.
Reciprocal Trade.
Chemical and Biological Weapons use.
Touch a NATO country and we end you.
Free Seaways.
Etc. etc.

We launched sanctions against Russia for a much flimsier assassination in Great Britain.

Why is this any different?
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:19 PM   #44
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prec·e·dent
noun
ˈpresəd(ə)nt/Submit
1.
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

You keep arguing about the guy. "But the guy, the guy..."

Pro Tip: Nobody gives a shit about "the guy."

My reason why this is a mess is literally in the title of this thread.

We can't have Allies out there whacking civilians without even the slightest attempt at plausible deniability and expect to have credible policy. Pointblankperiod.
Plausible deniability?
1. Saudi Arabia has probability of zero with respect to credibility. They murder something like 47 people a day or a week or a month, for various charges. That is their nation, their laws, and their business.
If you didn't know that, why are you complaining now about what they have been doing...and yes the World has known that?
But now a journalist has disappeared, probably murdered.

2. That journalist was an Arabian citizen, a man who befriended Osama bin laden no less.
Why aren't you complaining here about Arabia's miserable heinous treatment of other citizens for years?
Yes the American Government has known about Arabia's savagery for decades, as has every other country in the world.



3. The Arabian journalist was supposedly killed, assassinated if you wish, by Arabians.
The "dirty deed" was done on Arabian soil.
(Technically, the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Turkey is theoretically under Arabia. I hope that you understand that.)


4. If a murder tonight against a foreign ambassador takes place in Chicago,
or Las Vegas, should that country call for sanctions against the United States?

My Opinion:
Arabia is what it is.
I wouldn't live there. I don't agree with their values.
But it's their country and if their citizens don't like how their Government behaves that is their business to do something about it.
Not Ireland's, not Rwanda's, not Sweden's, not the U.S.A.'s and certainly not your's or mine even if we think that it is egregious.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:27 PM   #45
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The guy went to the consulate to get papers so he could get married. He was murdered and hacked up for his troubles.

Why are you attacking the victim?
Well duh.
Because he KNEW they were after him.
He SAID they would kill him. He TOLD the woman he was with if he was not out in 2 hours he was dead.

Duh.

Around here, we call that GD stupid!
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