Belmont Park is adding a synthetic track for 2024 meet

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Overarching hatred for everything NYRA & TLG?

LOL - yeah, everything beyond that please

[Profesor]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Synthetic tracks and I never got along.

You and a million other horseplayers, The Morons at NYRA will find out like S.A,KEENLAND,DEL MAR ,and now the dummies at Gulfstream have their handle is down more than 20% since they started to card races on the fake track

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

Doesn't it make sense for NYRA to consolidate at a single Long Island track which can offer a variety of surfaces and also have a boutique meet at Saratoga? What am I missing?

It makes perfect economic sense for NY to consolidate. It made perfect sense years ago when some people first started saying it was inevitable and were ridiculed and told it won't happen.

To each his own on synthetic.

I'm not a fan, but I'm even less of a fan of both because it adds surface switch complexities, makes bias evaluation more difficult, and makes figure making less accurate. So the less they use it the better. All one or the other removes some of those issues.

[Inner Dirt]

As of January 2022, the following North American racetracks offer synthetic racing:

• Golden Gate Fields (races on Tapeta and turf)
• Gulfstream Park (races on Tapeta, dirt, and turf)
• Presque Isle Downs (races exclusively on Tapeta)
• Turfway Park (races exclusively on Tapeta)
• Woodbine (races on Tapeta and turf)

That was from Twin Spires. I thought there were a lot more, did a lot of them switch back? I remember going to Santa Anita when they had it, the track actually stunk if you got close to it. It smelled like a combination of fresh asphalt and roofing tar.

[dilanesp]

NYRA is right on this. Belmont is gigantic, and this adds them more options especially in bad weather.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

I agree. The goal of any competent racing secretary is to work with the horse population that are on the grounds and look to fill races. With the reduction in breeding which has led to smaller fields the only solution is to look to the synthetic surfaces to use for off the turf races simply for less scratches which = greater handle. It isn't pretty but adjustments have to be made to keep the game running.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

NYRA is right on this. Belmont is gigantic, and this adds them more options especially in bad weather.

Railbirds going to need high powered binoculars to see the finish line.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Railbirds going to need high powered binoculars to see the finish line.

LOL.

I love watching races live and do use binoculars, but maybe the biggest change in the racetrack experience in my life is that it used to be when you went to Santa Anita and there were 45,000 people there for a big race, the seats were filled. Now that same crowd fills the parking lots (you can see their cars) but the seats are empty because they are all downstairs watching the races on the TV's.

How many people are actually going to be outside at Belmont watching these races? Especially since they'll be using this a lot on bad weather days when they are taking races off the turf.

I think we'll all be fine.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

How many people are actually going to be outside at Belmont watching these races? Especially since they'll be using this a lot on bad weather days when they are taking races off the turf.

There's no magic formula, but the general profile for fairly consistent high attendance seems to be a short meet, very high quality racing, and a place some might consider a vacation destination to combine with the racing. I think Belmont attendance will more or less be the same in the new facility.

[Andy Asaro]

Pretty sure I've written more in opposition to synthetic surfaces than anyone. In 2007 when they put them in California they were a scam IMO and nobody knew what they were doing. All a big experiment and all the right people benefitted from buying and selling them.

I do think they are appropriate at some venues even though I won't bet on them. Initially I thought Gulfstream would put a synthetic surface in for the same reasons we hear the NYRA guy say here. We all know that's not what happened.

Racing is going the wrong way and no matter how much smoke they blow up your *ss about growing the game it's all about failing as slowly as possible to keep the paychecks going.

[Bustin Stones]

Racing isn't failing. It's failing in N America. If they closed it all down tomorrow we'd bet the races elsewhere. If the fools here cannot make it despite subsidies, it doesn't deserve to survive here. We all know the story about resistance to change. It happens everywhere. You need to be hungry to succeed in this world.

[the little guy]

I'm moving up....I'm now The NYRA Guy...or TNG I guess.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

I do think they are appropriate at some venues even though I won't bet on them. Initially I thought Gulfstream would put a synthetic surface in for the same reasons we hear the NYRA guy say here. We all know that's not what happened.

To be fair, since I agree with you on the eventual long term outcome, the counterargument will be that Belmont has 2 turf courses that are in much better shape than GP and won't be used year round. So there's less of a reason to use the GP model of dirt/synth/turf on the same day. They will also say the surface will be maximized for winter racing and not be good for the peak summer months. I actually buy those arguments, but that's not the case I'm making for why I think they will ultimately use it more often.

I think there will inevitably be horses that like it a lot better than turf or dirt, horsemen that think it's safer, and owners and horsesmen that want to run more races on it to maximize the talents of their own horses. I suspect if there's enough demand for some extra synth races, they are going to write some in the spring and fall. Why not if owners and horsemen want it?

I've made my concern clear.

It's already sometimes difficult to figure out biases and track speed issues with a dirt track and an inner and outer turf course. Throw in some synth races and there are going to be days/periods where you have no idea how the track was playing or how fast the surface was because the sample sizes are so small and there was so many extra surface switches going into and coming out of winter, let alone if they run more.

That's a gambling concern that may or may not come to fruition.

The rest of it all makes perfect sense for NYRA.

[Bustin Stones]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I'm moving up....I'm now The NYRA Guy...or TNG I guess.

Congrats on your promotion? Are there duties you are ceding to someone else in moving up?

[JohnGalt1]

Originally Posted by Profesor

Hopefully the people who run NYRA will come to their senses and scrap the plan for a fake track,but if they go ahead and install one I hope they only use it for off the turf races, if they go the Gulfstream route and card races on Tapeta they will ruin the best circuit in the country,the championship meet at Gulfstream is now known as The ChampionSHIT meet and handle has been down 20 to 30% since they started to card races on Tapeta
The majority of horseplayers hate synthetic tracks,and they show it w/ their money
Hopefully NYRA remembers the synthetic tracks and their fate at S.A, KEENLAND and DEL MAR

Those three tracks were Polytrack.

I've read the book about betting synthetic track by Bill Finley. His conclusions, if I remember correctly, is they are more similar to dirt tracks than to turf. But that more emphasis should be placed on late runners.

As to GP, after trial and error I rate 5.5 furlong races as equal to dirt sprints, make 5f races 5 ticks faster.

I make Tapeta routes one tick faster than GP dirt miles, 6 ticks faster than 1 1/16 and 8 ticks faster than 9 furlongs.

If you have difficulty with Tapeta handicap like you would for a horse going from a super fast track like Emerald Downs to a much slower tack like Hastings Park. Adjust and adapt.