Belmont Park is adding a synthetic track for 2024 meet

[classhandicapper]

I just spoke to the general partner of the partnership I occasionally buy horses through. Our trainer has horses training on the pony track at Belmont that is already synthetic. He loves it.

There's two way to view that.

The good news is that assuming they use the same material on the inner track, it got a very good review from someone I trust.

The bad news is if he loves training on it, he's not going to mind if they card more races on it so he can run on it too. But there I go predicting again.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Many of the bigger stables do stay here year round, at least partially. Adding synth in Winter will hopefully attract a bigger horse population and ultimately help field size. Only time will tell. It won’t be an issue for at least three years.

Belmont is only 2.5 hours (without traffic) from Fair Hill, a lot of top trainers based there (many good ones, not the types we see in winter usually) will be very happy to have Tapeta racing, I hope they are being consulted - that figures to help

The popularity of Turfway must be obvious to all, weird as their racing is, and Woodbine does well also

My concern is will NYRA now destroy the beautiful Belmont infield? The arena and related construction has already completely ruined the backyard, the place does not feel right, granted of course it is a work in progress

Hopefully NYRA brings in someone with some design skills if the deal happens, certainly the work at the Spa has been decent, so there is some hope, and hopefully there will finally be some funds, now who to decide how they are spent and under what process

[Light]

It's been torrential rain here in the bay area and I was a little hesitant playing GG's Tapeta under those extreme conditions last weekend. But it's held out very well. There was no bias such as develops on wet tracks,no bizarre results. Fair and formful. I just missed the Pk6 playing it like it was a "fast" track. It's the wet dirt tracks that scare me off from playing. Those tracks really require the additional work of who likes it wet and who doesn't. Not so Tapeta, even in the rain.

[Richie]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

Belmont is only 2.5 hours (without traffic) from Fair Hill, a lot of top trainers based there (many good ones, not the types we see in winter usually) will be very happy to have Tapeta racing, I hope they are being consulted - that figures to help

The popularity of Turfway must be obvious to all, weird as their racing is, and Woodbine does well also

My concern is will NYRA now destroy the beautiful Belmont infield? The arena and related construction has already completely ruined the backyard, the place does not feel right, granted of course it is a work in progress

Hopefully NYRA brings in someone with some design skills if the deal happens, certainly the work at the Spa has been decent, so there is some hope, and hopefully there will finally be some funds, now who to decide how they are spent and under what process

i have been going to belmont since 1973, every year multiple times a year with my kids and family, hundreds of times.

when i saw the belmont backyard last year, it was a major disappointment, my son loved the new look, i hated it. I don't mind change at all, but that picnic ground was cold

[acorn54]

one has to project on the future when it comes to loaning money to the belmont racetrack project. i have heard that new york taxpayers ( i am one of them), are going to make a LONE of 450 million dollars for the project. my question is, are they going to be able to pay back the new york taxpayers, or are we going to be left holding the bag?

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by acorn54

one has to project on the future when it comes to loaning money to the belmont racetrack project. i have heard that new york taxpayers ( i am one of them), are going to make a LONE of 450 million dollars for the project. my question is, are they going to be able to pay back the new york taxpayers, or are we going to be left holding the bag?

A fair question, but does anyone actually read articles on the subject?

The LOAN of $450M would allow for the reconstruction of Belmont's grandstand (which is now 50+ years old), reconfigure the backyard/green space (post UBS Arena construction), and other development considerations. In exchange racing will cease at some point at Aqueduct. The repayment plan calls for approximately $25M per year from NYRA to service the debt.

This asks you to think about two points.

[1] Do you think that NYRA/Belmont Park will just disappear?

[2] What do you think happens with the land at Aqueduct?

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Richie

i have been going to belmont since 1973, every year multiple times a year with my kids and family, hundreds of times.

when i saw the belmont backyard last year, it was a major disappointment, my son loved the new look, i hated it. I don't mind change at all, but that picnic ground was cold

So you remember the Sunday afternoon concerts when 40,000+ would attend early for regular Belmont admission however it would be $10+ after 5:00pm or such? The Belmont Backyard was a spectacle back then in 1973, but that image will never be the same. Instead, the reconstuction project holds the promise of something new with perhaps the upper stretch grandstand space becoming the new "backyard" in time.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

So you remember the Sunday afternoon concerts when 40,000+ would attend early for regular Belmont admission however it would be $10+ after 5:00pm or such? The Belmont Backyard was a spectacle back then in 1973, but that image will never be the same. Instead, the reconstuction project holds the promise of something new with perhaps the upper stretch grandstand space becoming the new "backyard" in time.

those concerts never did anything for racing

this vision of yours is exactly why anyone sensible who has attended Belmont racing (or the Big A) should be extremely skeptical of what NYRA would do with hundreds of millions of dollars

[acorn54]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

A fair question, but does anyone actually read articles on the subject?

The LOAN of $450M would allow for the reconstruction of Belmont's grandstand (which is now 50+ years old), reconfigure the backyard/green space (post UBS Arena construction), and other development considerations. In exchange racing will cease at some point at Aqueduct. The repayment plan calls for approximately $25M per year from NYRA to service the debt.

This asks you to think about two points.

[1] Do you think that NYRA/Belmont Park will just disappear?

[2] What do you think happens with the land at Aqueduct?

scott i don't have as much confidence as you in the people of belmont promoting racing to the public. by and large the management are political appointees if what i have read is true. they don't operate on a dynamic business principal to say the least, as compared to other betting venues.

[ScottJ]

Some thoughts about the introduction of the (inner)^3 surface.

[1] If each track (dirt, outer turf, inner turf, synthetic) is 100 feet wide in the stretch (rail to rail) plus some 10 feet for intertrack drainage, the inner rail on the new synthetic service will be 440 feet from the tarmac rail. If the new grandstand is set (approximately) 160 feet from the tarmac rail, fans will be at least 600 feet from the action near a grandstand door. In an area of 60x100 properties, that is the equivalent of looking ten houses down the block to see what is happening. Further if seated in an elevated section, sightlines to the new inner track would still be an architectural challenge. (Remember that the new grandstand will likely not be as tall.)

[2] In light of [1], video board quality will be a major issue and differentiating races on infield video boards versus a wide screen in-home television will be the "experience of the races" marketing challenge among others. Please do not position such boards so that 6f, 6.5f, 7f, and 1m races start "behind" the board for many patrons. Also, make sure that the video production does not require those video boards to be seen on the television broadcast (a la Tampa Bay) while panning the backside.

[3] Off-the-turf racing has always been my favorite for identifying value in a race by bettting against good-form turf meant entries on dirt. That dynamic will change with the synthetic surface. I have personally not seen whether maintaining larger fields in turf to synthetic surface switches helps overall race handle (logically it should), but the Gulfstream blow-back seems to indicate that the handle is not as well maintained as one might expect. I would need to spend time with those numbers - and quite frankly, I do not work on Gulfstream cards. [I am admitting here that I need to do more work on these numbers. If anyone has specifics, please do share.]

[4] All of this does come back to one basic point : Does NYRA actually need year-round racing? Following the death of Roosevelt, Yonkers for many reasons became an after thought. After the death of Garden State, the Meadowlands lost its circuit concept - openings and closings of a season. Personally I have loved Aqueduct through the years, but I regret that the idea of "seasons" have been lost there. Belmont has them (at least for now) and Saratoga clearly does. If Belmont goes to 160+ days per year, will it have a natural season? Probably not. After much thought, the current Christmas closure should probably be expanded - do we need January though March on the calendar in this newly configured NYRA?

[classhandicapper]

From what I've read so far, the plans they have for the reconstruction of the grandstand, changes to the infield, and use of the land freed up by having a smaller grandstand all sound fine to me. I suspect no one is going to have a major issue with the new facility when it's done and hopefully we will all like it a lot. IMO it's the racing they have to get right.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by acorn54

scott i don't have as much confidence as you in the people of belmont promoting racing to the public. by and large the management are political appointees if what i have read is true. they don't operate on a dynamic business principal to say the least, as compared to other betting venues.

This is ridiculous even by the standards of posting in this thread. There isn’t a single political appointment in the management of NYRA. We produce an almost daily TV show on FOX covering our races, over 1000 hours a year, but according to you we do nothing to promote our product. Nothing you have said in your posts here even borders on truth.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

those concerts never did anything for racing

Marketing metrics from the 1970s were very different from today's social media driven advertising business. The fact is that we have no idea whether racing fans wee generated through those concerts. At the time, the focus was on increasing the usage of the open green space and provide parallel entertainment to the races.

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

this vision of yours is exactly why anyone sensible who has attended Belmont racing (or the Big A) should be extremely skeptical of what NYRA would do with hundreds of millions of dollars

Let me slightly shift the discussion to the Islanders for a moment. After being virtually homeless for years due to Nassau County's inability to move forward with the Nassau Hub concept at the Coliseum, the Islanders franchise proved its resilience by finding a home at UBS Arena. Meanwhile, Nassau Coliseum is virtually abandoned while the property is now a lightning rod for the casino debate and the potential impacts on not only the Nassau Hub, but the surrounding University community.

We have the chance to leverage up on that UBS Arena investment by rebuilding another franchise, Downstate New York Racing, and expanding going forward. Will the investment yield benefits? I would argue absolutely; your skepticism is welcomed. Since the NYRA bankruptcy, my feeling is that the franchise is being run prudently and bad actors are quickly removed.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

[3] Off-the-turf racing has always been my favorite for identifying value in a race by bettting against good-form turf meant entries on dirt. That dynamic will change with the synthetic surface. I have personally not seen whether maintaining larger fields in turf to synthetic surface switches helps overall race handle (logically it should), ...

We think alike.

There's going to be some tradeoffs there for you and I.

Will do away with those turf-dirt patsies, but it should strengthen multi-race wagers.

I don't mind the synth at Gulfstream, but as in the jackpot bets, hopefully NYRA is more quality/player friendly than Gulfstream.

From a handicapping perspective I am no expert on synth racing.
A couple of insights - I do better at postmortems than pre-race on synth. This is always the case with horseplayers of course, but the point I'm trying to make is that you must keep a watch-list for synth racing. You can get some very good bet-backs. A lot of that is flow oriented.
I've been a consistent subscriber of TimeformUS, so their pace-projector is something I consider in attempting to compare to previous vs-flow synth trips as well as handicap today's race. (Ideally you want something like a speed surviving a pace collapse or a stalker who made a good run into a merry-go-round).
Consider trainer stats. While the simulcast 'railbirds' complain that it's random racing, the truth is that just like dirt or turf, certain trainers dominate. It's often some of the same trainers who do well on dirt or turf. It may seem intuitive that synth will now be 'turf' trainers, and if the surface is primarily used for off-the-turf racing it will have some slant in that direction, but it's often the supertrainers who do well on dirt who also do well on synth.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by the little guy

We produce an almost daily TV show on FOX covering our races, over 1000 hours a year, but according to you we do nothing to promote our product.

Apologies for not getting to this critical point sooner in the discussion as I was responding serially.

The New York Mets broadcast their games on SNY and still can bring 20,000-40,000 to the ballpark. NYRA's partnership with FOX will be a major contributing factor going forward to handle, product recognition, and educating viewers. Numerous friends of mine have again picked up the game since the pandemic due to these broadcasts. That's fighting in the trenches one-by-one for each patron. That is bare-knuckles marketing and tends to be long-term sticky with clients.