Who created this profile: Us or Them?

[boxcar]

We've seen various versions of this list before, but it bears repeating for the dull of hearing and the slow studies amongst us.

*************************************

The following is a multiple-choice test. The events are cuts from history. Yes, they actually happened!

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. A Muslim man between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-year old
American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The WWE
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

14. The recent bombings and bombing attempts in London were carried out by:
a. Desperate Housewives
b. The cast of The View
c. Fox and Friends
d. Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Are you seeing a pattern . . . dare I say, a profile, developing here?

*********************************

For the full story, see:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20050806.shtml

Boxcar

[NoDayJob]

You wouldn't be suggesting "Muslim men mostly between the ages of 17 and 40", would you? Why man, that's RACIST, No 198920, it really is!

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[ljb]

Boxcar,
And your point is ?

[PaceAdvantage]

In the spirit of equal time, I for one am tired of seeing this list reprinted on this site....this has to be the third or fourth time this has been posted....we get it....

And believe me, I'm sure there is PLENTY of profiling being done, even though nobody in their right mind is going to come out and declare it an official policy.

Come on folks, you all know better than this. For every old grandmother being hustled off to the search area in the airport, 50 muslim guys are going to get the full treatment....the grandmother is the PR....the real behind the scenes action is full of profiling....

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Come on folks, you all know better than this. For every old grandmother being hustled off to the search area in the airport, 50 muslim guys are going to get the full treatment....the grandmother is the PR....the real behind the scenes action is full of profiling....

PA is right on this. I remember when profiling was called "Police Work"

[boxcar]

ljb asks:

Boxcar,
And your point is

Try reading the article from which I posted the list. But...if by chance you did read it and still didn't get the "point" -- well, I guess, like many other Libs, you'd fit under the category of a slow study.

Boxcar

[ljb]

Boxcar,
Read Pa's reply to your note. Perhaps then you will understand my question.

[boxcar]

ljb wrote:

Boxcar,
Read Pa's reply to your note. Perhaps then you will understand my question.

Yo, meathead: The oped piece from which that list was taken preceded PA's reply and the writer of that article definitely had a point or two to make.

Moreover, with all due repsect to PA, we don't all "get it". Libs never get it. How's that for another added point?

Boxcar

[kenwoodallpromos]

So you are saying the Bush Admin harrasses old ladies for PC?
Change that survey to CONUS bombing outside of NY and it will change to white men 17-40.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by kenwoodallpromos

Change that survey to CONUS bombing outside of NY and it will change to white men 17-40.

Not entirely, if you believe conspiracy theorists.....

[highnote]

Originally Posted by boxcar

For the full story, see:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20050806.shtml

Boxcar

Let's take the ideas in this article to the logical extreme.

Why limit these searches to American Muslim men between ages of 17 and 40? Timothy McVeigh was a white man between the age of 17 and 40 who committed an act of terrorism. So any white guy driving a van should be pulled over and checked out, interogated, strip searched, etc., too. Right?They fit the profile.

Plus, some black American men between the ages of 17 and 40 are Muslim. So cops should be able to randomly pull over black men between the ages of 17 and 40 and check the trunks of their cars and under their seats for drugs. They might be selling the drugs which originated in the Afghanistan poppy fields and help raise money for terrorists. Plus, you don't really know whether they are Christian or Muslim until you check them out.

The people instigating the Muslim men between 17 and 40 are probably the older community leaders - the sheiks and Immans or clerics, or whatever the right term is. So why just profile the 17 to 40's? The leaders are the older men. We need to check them out, too.

Jim Brown, the great running back of the Cleveland Browns, is a Muslim. So is the great boxer Mohammed Ali. Just because these men appear to be upstanding citizens doesn't mean they aren't in some way supporting terrorists. How do we really know whether they are or not unless we go into their homes and look through their personal papers, computers, etc? You can never be too certain. I'm sure these two men are very influential.

Aren't terrorists supposed to blend in with the local society. Dress like westerners, act like westerners, etc. You can never be too sure.

In my opinion, the article is pretty weak. In fact, it was downright stupid. Hell, most of the article was a list cut and pasted from another source. And he's using this list to make a case against all 17 - 40 year old Muslim men?

[boxcar]

swetyejohn wrote:

Let's take the ideas in this article to the logical extreme.

Why??? We're really talking about statistics here, aren't we? The indisuputable fact is that in 100% of the cases listed, the perpetrators fit a certain pattern, if you will. What's so difficult to understand about this? What part of "pattern", don't you understand?

Why limit these searches to American Muslim men between ages of 17 and 40? Timothy McVeigh was a white man between the age of 17 and 40 who committed an act of terrorism. So any white guy driving a van should be pulled over and checked out, interogated, strip searched, etc., too. Right?They fit the profile.

McVeigh was an anamoly -- an isolated incident comparitively speaking. Since you're so big on "logic", why would you so broaden the scope of an investigation to include exceptions to the rule. The focus should rightfully be on the rule, not the exceptions.

Plus, some black American men between the ages of 17 and 40 are Muslim. So cops should be able to randomly pull over black men between the ages of 17 and 40 and check the trunks of their cars and under their seats for drugs. They might be selling the drugs which originated in the Afghanistan poppy fields and help raise money for terrorists. Plus, you don't really know whether they are Christian or Muslim until you check them out.

Yeah...and tomorrow you "might" be selling a dirty bomb to my grandmother. But again the cold stats say that these whackjobs were of Arab descent.

The people instigating the Muslim men between 17 and 40 are probably the older community leaders - the sheiks and Immans or clerics, or whatever the right term is. So why just profile the 17 to 40's? The leaders are the older men. We need to check them out, too.

In what cave have you been hiding? We and our allies have captured or killed a large number of senior Al Queda leaders. We are looking for both. However, it's the younger Muslim men who are on the front lines of this war -- who are actually doing the bombings. In any war, when you kill enough of the enemy operating in the trenches, you will eventually win that war. It's more difficult to get to the leaders because they're operating behind the scences.

Jim Brown, the great running back of the Cleveland Browns, is a Muslim. So is the great boxer Mohammed Ali. Just because these men appear to be upstanding citizens doesn't mean they aren't in some way supporting terrorists. How do we really know whether they are or not unless we go into their homes and look through their personal papers, computers, etc? You can never be too certain.

So...you're advocating that with out us having an probable cause in their cases that we just bust down their door? Conversely, we have more than ample statistical probable cause in the case of young Muslim men.

When you go to the race track or betting parlor or whatever to make bets on horse races, you really don't know who is going to win, do you? So then, do you place bets on all the horses in a race to cover your butt....and to ensure your loss!? But that's precisely what your argument is suggesting that the government and law enforcement officials do with terrorists. You want the government to make everyone under the sun a suspect, just guaranteeing that we'll waste valuable time and human resources which will be cause of this country's downfall.

Aren't terrorists supposed to blend in with the local society. Dress like westerners, act like westerners, etc. You can never be too sure.

Yeah...but a rag head looks like a rag head, doesn't he? You can only blend in to a certain extent. Plus there's always a paperwork trail...

In my opinion, the article is pretty weak. In fact, it was downright stupid.

Funny...I was thinking precisely the same thing about your objections.

Boxcar

[highnote]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...but a rag head looks like a rag head, doesn't he?

..................

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn

Jim Brown, the great running back of the Cleveland Browns, is a Muslim. So is the great boxer Mohammed Ali. Just because these men appear to be upstanding citizens

You mean this Jim Brown? ???? From ESPN:

" But for all Brown's good deeds and athletic prowess, there appears to be a dark side to him as well. He has been frequently accused of violent crimes, primarily toward women.


An 18-year-old accused Brown of forcing her to have sex after giving her whisky, but a jury found him innocent of assault and battery in the 10-day trial in 1965. He was accused of throwing his girlfriend from a balcony in 1968, but when the 22-year-old woman refused to name Brown as her assailant, the charge of assault with intent to murder was dropped. He was fined $300 for resisting a deputy.

Brown was acquitted of assaulting a man after a traffic accident in 1969. He was fined $500 and spent a day in jail after beating up a golfing partner in 1978. He was charged with rape, sexual battery and assault in 1985, but the charges were dropped when the 33-year-old woman gave inconsistent testimony.

The next year, he was arrested for allegedly beating his fiancée after accusing her of flirting. He spent three hours in jail, but three days later the 21-year-old woman said she didn't want to prosecute.

In October 1999, Brown was convicted in Los Angeles of smashing the window of his 25-year-old wife Monique's car, but was acquitted of making terrorist threats against her. The judge sentenced him to three years' probation, stripped him of his driver's license for a year, fined him $1,700 to be paid to a battered woman's shelter and a domestic abuse fund, and ordered him to attend special counseling for domestic batterers.


When Brown refused counseling, he was given a six-month sentence. He was released from jail in Ventura County (California) in July 2002 after serving less than four months." From Espn, FYI

[lsbets]

I always try to look at things through the eyes of my enemy to come up with the best plan rather than the most likely, so that I can plan to defend against the best plan.

I read a piece a few years ago about women who converted to Judaism when they married a Jewish guy. The study showed that those women tended to be more devout than their husbands, and in those households it was more likely that they would keep a kosher home than in a household where both spouses were born Jewish.

What is the relevance of that to fighting terrorism? Converts tend to be more devout than those born into a faith. Why? The indoctrination that it takes to be converted. So, within a group of converts, I would think it would be easier to find those who are susceptible to extremism.

The shoe bomber? Convert, not Arab. The kid who was fighting in Afghanistan? Convert, not Arab. Jose Padilla? Convert, not Arab.I believe that a couple of the guys in London were of Jamaican descent, not Arab. Does that mean the attackers were not Muslim? Of course not, those acts were all carried out by Muslims, but in many instances it is very possible to find willing participants who are Muslim but not of Arab descent.

So, if I wanted to plan an attack, what would I do? I would flood the religious schools seeking out recent converts who seemed to be deeply committed to the religion. I would then see who could be brought over to my extreme cause, willing to sacrifice themselves for the extremist war. What would I have? A group of very committed potential suicide bombers who look like your avergae American. It wouldn't take many, two, four, ten. Terrorism plays on fear not victory. So, if you could find two white guys who recently converted to Islam who could be indoctrinated into the extremist cause, who would be willing to sacrifice themselves, and you sent them into the NYC subways, or a bus station, or some other large public space and they blew themselves up, that would be a victory for terrorism. Maybe there wouldn't be any more volunteers, but the disruption that would cause would be enough to achieve the goal. And the best part (from the terrorist perspective)? While everyone is looking for some Arab or Pakistani guy, searching through the backpack of some kid who is here on a student visa to learn engineering, the two white kids just slip right by, under everyone's noses.

I think profiling can be a useful tool - don't search the 80 year old women, focus on guys, but what happenned in Israel when they did that? They recruited female bombers. You have to get rid of the guys who recruit, train, and fund. In Israel the bombings stopped once the source of funding for suicide bombers was removed (well, two sources - one died and one is in prison). Those who say you can't just cut the head off are wrong. Take out the guys at the top who run the show, and the not really so committed slip away back to their normal lives, and the really committed shrink in number as they die and are not replaced.