Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Better tell Rich...

Who is Rich?

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Actor

Who is Rich?

Thinking means connecting thoughts. I would wager an average high schooler could identify the author in the link provided, grasp that "Rich" is short for Richard (Dawkins, to make things bloody obvious) and absorb the point of my post, that our hero is using "heart" with the same meaning as Boxcar or any biblical author--to describe the interior man.

I hope you're just deflecting. Good thing you have Boxcar as an interlocutor. On the other internet forums I peruse, the participants would not have time for such obtuseness.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Thinking means connecting thoughts. I would wager an average high schooler could identify the author in the link provided, grasp that "Rich" is short for Richard (Dawkins, to make things bloody obvious) and absorb the point of my post, that our hero is using "heart" with the same meaning as Boxcar or any biblical author--to describe the interior man.

I hope you're just deflecting. Good thing you have Boxcar as an interlocutor. On the other internet forums I peruse, the participants would not have time for such obtuseness.

You mean Uncle Dickie!

[Parkview_Pirate]

In post # 4961, Parkview_Pirate wrote a response directed to Boxcar:

The squirrel I tossed a peanut to earlier today is more up-to-speed on grace than yourself.

In post # 4962, Boxcar wrote:

Those who sit in darkness cannot see the light. After all, you just admitted that that furry squirrel you fed the other day is more savvy about grace than you are.

Huh? Since when did "yourself" mean "myself"? Weak deflection, poor reading comprehension, or both. Sad. Of course you followed it with the red herring about voting for Trump, rather than my description of your despicable behavior in the correct context of a practicing Christian.

Hopefully your reading comprehension skills are bit sharper when reading the Good Book.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by Actor

....I have about 10 posts remaining about the God of the OT. I'll get to the God of the NT after that.

I wish you wouldn't. I'll give a point to Boxcar here in that you're taking some of the quotes out of context.

If a person chooses to make a leap of faith, and Believe the Bible is the word of God, it's not constructive to argue about that, or at least the fine points about particular passages. Nothing you, or anyone else can say, is going to change their belief. It's like someone telling you that their favorite cake is German chocolate, and you tell them they're wrong.

You and I could probably agree on many things when it comes to our negative viewpoints of the Bible. Reading the Good News version convinced me there were far fewer authors than indicated, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what the Good News really is/was, as referenced by the title. With so many parables, allegorical content, and overall complexity, it's not a book easy to understand, nor easy to apply. Which is another reason I discount it - it's not for the common soul. It's designed to be used in a very hierarchical society, with the elites calling the shots.

But there's no denying its popularity, and there's no denying here in the United States, we are society to a large degree that is based on the Judeo-Christian values as documented in the Bible. It's easy to take portions of it, point out the contradictions or a quote to make a simple point, but unless taken in the overall context of the complete end-to-end interpretation, you're wasting your breath (or keystrokes). In this day and age, in a world so filled with lies and deceptions, it's understandable why some want to believe there is a golden book of truth.

And, you're playing into Boxcar's hands by focusing on his scripture, or rather is twisted interpretation of it. After all, this thread is supposed to be about religion, and not just Boxcar's narrow(minded) views.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

I wish you wouldn't. I'll give a point to Boxcar here in that you're taking some of the quotes out of context.

If a person chooses to make a leap of faith, and Believe the Bible is the word of God, it's not constructive to argue about that, or at least the fine points about particular passages. Nothing you, or anyone else can say, is going to change their belief. It's like someone telling you that their favorite cake is German chocolate, and you tell them they're wrong.

You and I could probably agree on many things when it comes to our negative viewpoints of the Bible. Reading the Good News version convinced me there were far fewer authors than indicated, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what the Good News really is/was, as referenced by the title. With so many parables, allegorical content, and overall complexity, it's not a book easy to understand, nor easy to apply. Which is another reason I discount it - it's not for the common soul. It's designed to be used in a very hierarchical society, with the elites calling the shots.

But there's no denying its popularity, and there's no denying here in the United States, we are society to a large degree that is based on the Judeo-Christian values as documented in the Bible. It's easy to take portions of it, point out the contradictions or a quote to make a simple point, but unless taken in the overall context of the complete end-to-end interpretation, you're wasting your breath (or keystrokes). In this day and age, in a world so filled with lies and deceptions, it's understandable why some want to believe there is a golden book of truth.

And, you're playing into Boxcar's hands by focusing on his scripture, or rather is twisted interpretation of it. After all, this thread is supposed to be about religion, and not just Boxcar's NARROW(minded) views.

(emphasis mine)

Man...you're two-fer-two. You've got the start of a streak going, for once again I must admit that I'm guilty as charged.

Matt 7:13-14
13"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
NASB

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

In post # 4961, Parkview_Pirate wrote a response directed to Boxcar:



In post # 4962, Boxcar wrote:



Huh? Since when did "yourself" mean "myself"? Weak deflection, poor reading comprehension, or both. Sad. Of course you followed it with the red herring about voting for Trump, rather than my description of your despicable behavior in the correct context of a practicing Christian.

Hopefully your reading comprehension skills are bit sharper when reading the Good Book.

I read very well, thank you. I changed it to "myself" because it's quite evident you have no understanding of God's grace. Heck...didn't you just write elsewhere that the bible is a difficult book to understand? You obviously have not been granted the understanding to the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Matt 13:10-15
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" 11 And He answered and said to them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. 12 "For whoever has, to him shall more be given, and he shall have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 "And in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,

'You will keep on hearing, but will not understand;
And you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;
15 For the heart of this people has become dull,
And with their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes
Lest they should see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I should heal them.'
NASB

Jesus is describing deprived, unrepentant sinners like yourself! Of course, you could change that by taking to heart passages like Job 22:9; Ps 25:9; 51:17; 2Chro 7:14, Isa 66:2, etc.

Regarding the "red herring", I was just trying to make you feel good about yourself, since you haven't been right about anything. But if you want...I'll take it back. (Just understand, though, that I can't take back my vote for Trump, nor would I want to.)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Better tell Rich..."You can legally lie about the real world to your heart's content, but until some human being is materially damaged, nobody will complain"...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ichard-dawkins

Why is Dawkin's referring to "the heart"--a pump-- as in the sense of desire or contentedness? That is, like any Semitic referring to the interior life of man? Because when all these folks let their guard down for a moment, such as Coyne attempting to persuade seminar attendees that there is no free will, they return to the common experience of the world, however briefly, before remembering again where and for what they have planted their flag.

Dawkin used the term because he's a backsliding atheist -- and doesn't know it.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God's love cannot reside in evil hearts.

There is no such thing as an "evil heart". Only "evil minds". The heart dwarfs the mind in size and dimensions. The mind is much weaker than the heart, therefore making it susceptible to "evil".

The definition of "evil" is that it has no heart. Evil is the lack of "the Light". Heart is the Light. Light is the physical manifestation of Heart. Evil cannot overcome the Heart just like Evil cannot overcome God.

I commend you on your strong drive for God. But your efforts are confused,ignorant and misdirected.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

There is no such thing as an "evil heart". Only "evil minds". The heart dwarfs the mind in size and dimensions. The mind is much weaker than the heart, therefore making it susceptible to "evil".

The definition of "evil" is that it has no heart. Evil is the lack of "the Light". Heart is the Light. Light is the physical manifestation of Heart. Evil cannot overcome the Heart just like Evil cannot overcome God.

I commend you on your strong drive for God. But your efforts are confused,ignorant and misdirected.

Listen to what your bosom drinking buddy said:

Matt 15:18-19
8 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
NASB

See also Gen 6:5; 8:21; Prov 6:14; Jer 17:9, etc. Jesus' teaching harmonizes with the OT. Yours, on the hand, is always in conflict with the Word of God.

Why do you think that God promised, under the New Covenant, to give his people a NEW HEART!? He had to give his people a new heart because the corruption of sin extends to all man's faculties -- mind, will, affections and conscience. There is nothing in man that is untainted by sin, hence the Doctrine of Total Depravity.

Ezek 36:26-27
26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
NASB

Just as all sin proceeds from a natural, evil heart, likewise obedience to God's law proceeds from his gift of a supernaturally, regenerated heart.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Listen to what your bosom drinking buddy said:

Matt 15:18-19
8 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
NASB

The word "heart" here is used metaphorically and can refer to either the mind, emotions or thoughts. It is not referring to the most sacred part of our being, our spiritual heart. This is where your literal translation of the Bible fails you.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

The word "heart" here is used metaphorically and can refer to either the mind, emotions or thoughts. It is not referring to the most sacred part of our being, our spiritual heart. This is where your literal translation of the Bible fails you.

And it can refer to all the above. It is the "collection" of all four faculties. The bible can signal out or focus upon one of those faculties or it can refer to all the faculties at once, as Jesus did in the passage I quoted.

So...when Jeremiah said that "the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful above all else", he was referring to all that entails human nature, i.e. mind, will, affections and conscience -- everything that makes a person what he is in his essence.

The apostle Paul also made this very clear in different words when he said that "there is no good thing in his flesh", i.e. in his sinful human nature (Rom 7:18). The human nature he was born with was totally corrupt with sin -- polluted with evil. Well, that human nature is the heart of man, Mr. Light! If I say that someone is "good-hearted" or I say that person is "good-natured", I'm referring in both cases to the essence of that person. Just as a New Covenant promise of God is the gift of a new heart according to Ezekiel, in the NT Paul says God's people are partakers of grace (Phil 1:7), partakers OF Christ (Heb 3:14, partakers of the Holy Spirit (Heb 6:4), and partakers of the divine nature itself, according to Peter (2Pet 1:4). The saints who were made partakers of these unspeakable gifts are also recipients of that new heart. Go back to that Ezekiel passage and look how God connects the gift of the new heart with the gift of the Holy Spirit! The gift of the Holy Spirit is how God's saints are made to partake of His divine nature! If one has a new heart, he is partaking of the divine nature. If one is partaking of the divine nature, he has the promised new heart! Heart and Nature are often used interchangeably in scripture -- two different sides to the same coin.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why do you persist in putting your ignorance of the bible on open display by making stupendous claims about God that are taken out of context from the whole counsel of God?

All these passages were compiled by a former minister. Of course you will say that he left his church because of his "sin nature" or some other bullshit excuse but you could hardly call him "ignorant of the Bible". Would you care to debate him?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

All these passages were compiled by a former minister. Of course you will say that he left his church because of his "sin nature" or some other bullshit excuse but you could hardly call him "ignorant of the Bible". Would you care to debate him?

The religious establishment of Jesus' day (Scribes, Lawyers, Pharisees and Sadducees) weren't ignorant of the OT scriptures either; yet, they put the innocent Christ to death. However, after Christ rose from the dead on the third day, those same OT scriptures turned the world upside down when the Gospel was preached from them.

I have no interest in debating apostates. They have already been given over to their own reprobate mind, which God predestined for them (1Pet 2:8). In fact, it is impossible to renew such people to repentance (Heb 6:4-5).

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The apostle Paul also made this very clear in different words when he said that "there is no good thing in his flesh", (Rom 7:18).

I understand what Paul is saying here.Paul is referring to the spiritual self as I am. That the physical body does not contain the saving graces we need. That if you follow just the desires of the body and neglect the spiritual side, it will corrupt you. I agree with that, but I would not use the wording they used back then which was normal then, but not now.

What I would say in place of what Paul said is that one's life expands and contracts according to how open one's heart is, specifically the spiritual heart. What you referred to here and previously with the quote from Jesus was a condemnation of worldly hearts in love with materialism. That is not the same as the spiritual heart I am talking about because the spiritual heart it is not concerned with materialism. I hope this clarifys my point.