It just keeps getting bettor

[chrisl]

Major cement shortage is causing layoffs. A shortage of Portland cement (powder) is hammering construction projects in California. My Concrete sub on my project was placing around 6,000 yards of concrete a week. Literally overnight we are now down to around 300 yards a week. I have heard many reasons for it. Diesel, shipping back ups, labor shortages etc. One sub I know had to lay off 500 men. This stops project in their tracks. A lot more lay offs from the other trades. I have been told it will get a lot worse. Could last all summer. Already a $26 hike per yard, I have about 56,000 yards still to pour on my project. Developer is not to happy. I did not realize that Putin has such a long arm. I am just grateful Biden is running the show. If it was someone else, it would be a complete disaster. Thanks Joe

[Inner Dirt]

Doesn't cement come from local quarries, like the same ones that provide sand and gravel?

[chrisl]

No. China is the major producer of Portland. Most of it made out of the country that we use on the West Coast. Concrete batch plant are guzzlers of electricity. They are going to be the target of brown outs to further the problem.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by chrisl

No. China is the major producer of Portland. Most of it made out of the country that we use on the West Coast. Concrete batch plant are guzzlers of electricity. They are going to be the target of brown outs to further the problem.

Thanks, I learned something new. Why does the USA not produce it's own cement, is it rare here?

[chrisl]

What I have been told for many years that it was partially a by product of the steel mills. It has been regulated out of the US little by little. Like everything else.

[Inner Dirt]

About a little over a year or so ago I had the gravel driveway redone and ordered a load of sand. Driver said the prices had doubled, that might have been due to the Covid building boom. Are sand and gravel prices insane also?

[chrisl]

Certain parts of the country sand is hard to come by. They used to dredge the mouth of rivers and get a lot of sand that way. Corps of Engineers stopped that. In my location sand is a very expensive building material. Crushed rock is not.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by chrisl

No. China is the major producer of Portland. Most of it made out of the country that we use on the West Coast. Concrete batch plant are guzzlers of electricity. They are going to be the target of brown outs to further the problem.

I spent 25 years working for a design/build engineering company in the cement and mining industries. This is patently false. The US produces lots of cement. So does China. Cement is made on 6 continents.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by chrisl

What I have been told for many years that it was partially a by product of the steel mills. It has been regulated out of the US little by little. Like everything else.

Not true AT ALL

[chrisl]

Not anymore

[chrisl]

China 18.5%
India 17.7%
USA 4.2%

Mexico produces a lot of Cement I do not know how much.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Certain parts of the country sand is hard to come by. They used to dredge the mouth of rivers and get a lot of sand that way. Corps of Engineers stopped that. In my location sand is a very expensive building material. Crushed rock is not.

The sand and crush rock come from the same quarry people use here 15 miles away. I know they are mining the rock on site, not sure about the sand. There is a train that always stops at the quarry, maybe they are dropping off sand? The soil around here is full of red clay FTS.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by chrisl

China 18.5%
India 17.7%
USA 4.2%

Mexico produces a lot of Cement I do not know how much.

That is a meaningless stat. Most cement is homemade due to shipping cost. The US is a net importer of cement but that's been that way for decades. The US used to have over 300 cement kilns. They now have 100 but produce more cement and far more efficiently. You really know nothing about the subject except the out of context factoids you've gleaned from wiki.

[FakeNameChanged]

Originally Posted by tucker6

That is a meaningless stat. Most cement is homemade due to shipping cost. The US is a net importer of cement but that's been that way for decades. The US used to have over 300 cement kilns. They now have 100 but produce more cement and far more efficiently. You really know nothing about the subject except the out of context factoids you've gleaned from wiki.

I worked right next door to the Medusa Portland Cement company for 21 years here in York , Pa. The company still makes cement in the Lehigh Valley in Pa. down thru Georgia or Alabama, We sit on the country's richest limestone belt(mines) which is why steel has been made in Pa. for over a hundred years.

Setting up a continuous limestone kiln is ridiculously capital intensive. and the
one in York finally was shut down in '84. My dad helped to erect it as an ironworker. Medusa like all corps. built a new huge one in Alabama or Georgia and started shutting down several of the smaller local kilns as a cost cutting venture. I don't know the situation on the west coast, but shipping limestone on railcars across country probably costs more than getting it from China, just a guess.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by FakeNameChanged

I worked right next door to the Medusa Portland Cement company for 21 years here in York , Pa. The company still makes cement in the Lehigh Valley in Pa. down thru Georgia or Alabama, We sit on the country's richest limestone belt(mines) which is why steel has been made in Pa. for over a hundred years.

Setting up a continuous limestone kiln is ridiculously capital intensive. and the
one in York finally was shut down in '84. My dad helped to erect it as an ironworker. Medusa like all corps. built a new huge one in Alabama or Georgia and started shutting down several of the smaller local kilns as a cost cutting venture. I don't know the situation on the west coast, but shipping limestone on railcars across country probably costs more than getting it from China, just a guess.

Most cement plant are built near limestone deposits. The Midwest from TX to IA has a ridiculous amount of deposits. You know your stuff about kilns. Kilns back in the day used to produce 800-1000tons/hr. Now you can get 10x that from one kiln. China has little to do with the US decline in cement production. Environmental issues have been the biggest detriment, as has energy costs. Most of China's production is for domestic consumption as their quality is not stable. Last I knew, Lehigh Cement still had a white plant in York, but that was 5 years ago. Obviously that plant was racist.