Religious

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

On one side we have Jews that wrote down everything for 6 thousand years, much of which has been demonstrated to be historically accurate in modern times.

The only thing we know for certain is that Jews have been telling the same story for app. 2,300 years. There is no proof whatsoever of the Patriarchs, of Genesis. None that Jews were enslaved in Egypt or of Moses or the Exodus.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by TJDave

The only thing we know for certain is that Jews have been telling the same story for app. 2,300 years. There is no proof whatsoever of the Patriarchs, of Genesis. None that Jews were enslaved in Egypt or of Moses or the Exodus.

There is no need for "proof"...that's where "faith" comes in. If there WAS any real proof...then EVERYBODY would believe...and the REAL believers wouldn't stand out.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by TJDave

The only thing we know for certain is that Jews have been telling the same story for app. 2,300 years. There is no proof whatsoever of the Patriarchs, of Genesis. None that Jews were enslaved in Egypt or of Moses or the Exodus.

So...the Jews who wrote the OT were a bunch of liars?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I thought you owned cats. I've never seen a cat chase its tail. Dogs, yes, but never a cat.

I do. And a couple of my cats chase their tails regularly. This is a characteristic of irrational animals. Dogs, too.

[boxcar]

[QUOTE=Actor]Yes, there does. Why? 66 books written by about 40 different people attest to the truth -- without any contradictions. Today, we can barely find two people to agree on the time of day, let alone on thousands of different statements that all point to one underlying, cohesive theme.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

There is no need for "proof"...that's where "faith" comes in.

Here, the "faithful" insist they have "proof".

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Here, the "faithful" insist they have "proof".

The "fairhful" are mistaking "believing" for "knowing".

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...the Jews who wrote the OT were a bunch of liars?

I wouldn't classify retelling legends and the making of new ones as lying.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

The NASB is your fave translation, is it not? From the NASB, Mathew 2:19-22...

Archelaus was the son of Herod the Great. This passage clearly places the date of Jesus' birth during the reign of Herod the Great.

Herod the Great was the only King Herod. The Romans did not allow Herod the Great's sons to claim that title.

And so...your point is? Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great and Caesar Augustus and while Quirinius was governor of Syria. I have addressed this alleged contradiction often on this forum -- most notably with "Big Al". Arguments from silence carry no weight with rational people, of which I consider myself. Furthermore, I recall telling you once upon a time to Google or Bing (whatever you do with your searches) the phrase "Lapis Tiburtinus" which is an ancient inscription on a tombstone which records an unknown governor who apparently served as pro praetor of Syria twice. This could very well be Mr. Qx.

At any rate...lack of records is not evidence for or against an historical event. Ancient records were lost or destroyed, particularly when they are over 2,000 years old.

Enjoy yourself while you try to cultivate your argument from silence.
To what should I liken such juvenile activity: To nailing jello to the wall?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by TJDave

I wouldn't classify retelling legends and the making of new ones as lying.

So, the ancient readership of their day understood these were fictional stories?

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, the ancient readership of their day understood these were fictional stories?

I would expect not.

Most were not readers, anyway. Judaism has a written history with an oral tradition. Jews listened in convocation. The Hebrew must have been challenging...considering Aramaic was language in the hood.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

My claim does not require proof that Jesus was a rabble rouser. It requires proof that a book existed that CLAIMED he was a rabble rouser and his movement was growing. That book is the New Testament and it existed within 100 years of His theoretical existence as the movement was growing.

The compilation of the gospels, the Acts, the epistles and Revelation into one book did not even begin until the fourth century. Before that the Christian literature was a hodgepodge of gospels, epistles, etc. most of which did not make it into the canon.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's so obvious which is more likely it's not even a conversation. Whoever said the correct probability is 33%, well, I want to gamble with that guy every day for the rest of my life.

Richard Carrier, PhD, On the Historicity of Jesus. You can buy it at Amazon.com. What track is going to take the bets?

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

On one side we have Jews that wrote down everything for 6 thousand years, much of which has been demonstrated to be historically accurate in modern times.

Cite a source!

Very little of the Bible is historically accurate. Archaeologists have confirmed the existence of certain Israeli kings following the division of Israel and the existence of a "House of David" prior to that, but nothing else.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

We have a book that was written within a century of Jesus's supposed existence that is highly critical of Jews and Romans on multiple counts.

It's critical of the whole human race.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

We have Romans who wrote down the history of the expansion of Christianity and even joined in themselves and accelerated the process.

Do we? Name the authors, their books and the dates they were published.

I think you'd have a hard time publishing that thesis and getting it past peer review.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Yet no Jews or Romans (who would clearly have known the truth) ...

Why would they have known? Just how widely circulated was this stuff outside Christian circles? Do you have numbers?

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

... thought to tell anyone the book was full of crap as it was trashing them and growing in significance.

Again, do you have numbers?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And so...your point is?

You really don't like reality, do you?

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Actor

You really don't like reality, do you?

He doesn't live there.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by TJDave

He doesn't live there.

And he never visits.