Wisoconsin recall update.....

[badcompany]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

But, given you want them to give up their profits, if you take away that avenue (profits) what would cause anyone to take chances in starting businesses which would later become the wal-marts of the world? Profits are what business is designed to do. They have a responsibility to their share holders. It's the way of the business world.

The typical Leftist response to a question like this is to point out that if the profits are given to the workers, then, they'll have more money which translates into greater demand.

It sounds plausible but economics must be looked at as a system. Without profits, the company can't reinvest in order to grow and become more efficient. So, the nominal wages that the workers get will result in more dollars chasing the same amount of goods and services, the result being no difference in real wages and the forfeiting of future economic growth.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by HUSKER55

Big Ed had a crying moment where the union lost 2/3 of its members. Think about this. What was holding that unon together? sure wasn't loyalty. that is alot of lost dues. what happened to unions strong hold over its members?

I think this is one of the big stories here. the fact that the union lost so many members exposes the scam for what it is. the cozy government/labor partnership has screwed both the rank and file members and the taxpayers.

I also don't get the whining over being outspent. this was their initiative! they took the battle to Walker, nobody forced them to do it. they miscalculated and now pay the price. don't blame the people who supported Walker, blame your own damn leadership who wasted so much time and resources on this hopeless effort. what they have succeeded in doing is making Walker even more popular.

people don't want to be bullied, strong-armed, and intimidated, which are the hallmarks of union activity. mailing out lists to people containing the names of their neighbors and indicating whether or not they voted is reprehensible.

[Valuist]

This is dedicated to all the "Recallers". Time to turn the page. You lost. Ironically Seger probably would've been one one their sympathizers. Can still like his music, if not his politics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaxjUUdGdH8

[BlueShoe]

As we all are aware of, this election had national implications that went far beyond Wisconsin. Yesterday was the California primary, but I felt that the Wisconsin recall election was more important than election results in my own home state, and focused more attention on it. The California primary was pretty ho hum, the real action will come in November, although was not pleased with the results of one of our initiatives. Hopefully, Wisconsin will embolden other states to take similar action, and challenge, confront, and break the power of the Marxist unions.

[NJ Stinks]

A few thoughts from far away:

1. Buying elections is no different than buying wins in sports (see the Yankees, Angels, Manchester United, Chelsea, etc.) Buying elections makes a mockery of our supposed democracy. Any fool can understand that.

2. I agree with Mostpost. I could stop there but I will repeat the thought that people are voting against their own self-interest when voting for a guy like Walker. Those tax dollars you are saving by voting for Walker will seem like peanuts down the line. Because Walker's policies will only lead to lower paying jobs and non-existent benefits. What is going to cost the working man more in the long run? It's a no-brainer.

3. Unions will come back when people fnally come to the inescapable conclusion that without unions - most employers won't pay squat. Put another way, show me a country with no unions and I'll show you a country without a middle class.

Having stated the above, I will add that I agree with those who say there should not have been a recall election. Walker did not commit a crime. He brought in policies unpopular with almost half his constituents. In a democracy like ours, an elected official should be allowed to serve out his term.

[Tom]

The unions lined up against successful government and responsible spending.
They were in this only for their own gains, not for the good of the state.

The message is still echoing........why should the taxpayers pay for the union boys free ride?

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks

3. Unions will come back when people fnally come to the inescapable conclusion that without unions - most employers won't pay squat. Put another way, show me a country with no unions and I'll show you a country without a middle class.
.

You'd be right if (a) workers had to perform under unsafe conditions (b) were paid too low per marketplace value (c) work in hostile environments

"a" is why I think certain professions need union protection. Cops, pilots, firemen etc. People who (should be) skilled workers that serve the public while facing potentially life threatening and life saving situations. These people don't need to be working 60 hr weeks on end. Unions serve a purpose.....pardon me for those offended, but most union workers don't fit in this category. I'll leave it at that other than to say paying someone at 55yo --who held down an average job-- a retirement package, funded by taxpayers, is wrong

and you're right...when employers aren't being fair to employees overall, things would change. That's not the problem at the present time. The opposite is true. Unions have been out of control for some time.

If you don't wish to believe me, believe the voting populace of a Blue state like Wisconsin....also telling was 38% of union voters voted for Walker per exit polls. Explain that ...my take is THEY KNOW unions have taxpayers over a barrel, time for a change

[iwearpurple]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks

A few thoughts from far away:

3. Unions will come back when people fnally come to the inescapable conclusion that without unions - most employers won't pay squat. Put another way, show me a country with no unions and I'll show you a country without a middle class.

I find it interesting that those on the left have no clue. As an employee, I provide a service to the employer, who in turn pays me a wage or salary. EVERY employer will pay an employee what he or she is worth. I don't need a union to determine my pay. I can do that myself. If I don't make enough, I need to take the initative to better myself, work harder, educate myself, whatever it takes to increase my pay. If the employer does not pay what the employee is worth, the employee will go elsewhere where they will be compensated fairly for what they do and/or produce.

I am now retired. The company that I worked for paid very well and had excellent benefits. I worked very hard, worked late when necessary, and was rewarded accordingly.

Oh yes, this company is also very successful and has been succesful for all of their 60+ years since their inception.

That is the way free enterprise should work and it does. When government and unions get in the way, it does not work.

[lsbets]

The issue in Wisconsin was not unions in general. It was the corrupt nature of public employee unions. The unions make huge campaign contributions to the very politicians who vote to give them compensation packages way out of line with what private sector employees make. Don't do what the unions want, they make sure you lose your job. What Walker did was stop the bribery and cut off the cash cow that fed the public employee union bosses and the politicians they purchased. Only a government employee would think this is a bad thing. The unions through a temper tantrum, moved bodies in from all over the country, and got their asses kicked. The people won.

[acorn54]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks

A few thoughts from far away:



3. Unions will come back when people fnally come to the inescapable conclusion that without unions - most employers won't pay squat. Put another way, show me a country with no unions and I'll show you a country without a middle class.

Having stated the above, I will add that I agree with those who say there should not have been a recall election. Walker did not commit a crime. He brought in policies unpopular with almost half his constituents. In a democracy like ours, an elected official should be allowed to serve out his term.

china has a large middle class i think.

[so.cal.fan]

Good posts here.
Guys like El Kabong and Iwearpurple and lsbets obviously have been successful in the private sector and believe in the free market.
To those of you who do not.....your Keynesian economics is not working, it hasn't worked for decades and it's not going to work in the future.
You are not "progressive" you are "regressive".

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Elkabong

If I had no skills, say, performing menial tasks in the mailroom was my gig, then to be perfectly honest I wouldn't expect to be paid much. Nor would I deserve to belong to a union. Sorting mail / menial tasks isn't a skill. It's a function for the unskilled. No need for a union, at least in the eyes of a taxpayer who has to fund said unskilled worker

OK, so you are the genius who still thinks that Post Office salaries are paid from taxes. As has been mentioned here many times, all Postal expenses are paid from revenues collected for Post Office goods and services. Tax money is not involved. Well, there is one exception. When your congressman or Senator sends you one of those mailings telling you what a wonderful job he is doing, you are paying for that.

As to performing menial tasks in the mailroom, I wouldn't know. I never worked in a mail room. I worked at a post office. While sorting mail was a part of my job, it was not all of it.

I was a window clerk. As such I had to know all the regulations for mailing parcels as to size and weight. I had to know which forms needed to filled out to mail certain types of parcel. I had to know where to find information on which countries prohibited certain articles. I had to know how to make out money orders and what forms and reports to fill out when doing so. I had to maintain my cash drawer and my stamp drawer which I had to pay for if there was a shortage. Every day at the end of the day I had to balance my drawer and complete reports as to what I had sold and the different services I had provided to customers.

I was a dispatch clerk. Since you have no clue as to what that is I will explain. The dispatch clerk takes care of incoming and outgoing mail. More accurately, he takes the mail you bring into the post office and prepares in for dispatch to the Sectional Sorting center. Patrons come to the counter in front of the Post Office. They bring in letters and flats (large envelopes) and parcels. They want packages insured and letters certified or registered. The clerk takes these items in and throws everything in a large container called a hamper. It's up to me to sort those items to the proper container based on the type of mail, the destination and the service provided.

At the same time people are dropping off mail at the loading dock. They are bringing in bulk mailings. If you get a piece of junk mail at home, look at the postage indicia. You will notice there is no amount. That is because firms who do bulk mailings maintain an account with the post office. When presenting pieces to be mailed they give us a form with the weight of single piece, the weight of the entire mailing, the number of pieces and the amount they are paying based on the level of sortation. We do not take their word for it.
First I make a random check of the mailing to determine if all pieces are identical. Then I check to see if the mailing is sorted as the customer says it is. If he is claiming a carrier route sort, I need to confirm that all pieces in a bundle are for the same carrier route. Again we don't check every letter in every bundle in every mailing. There is a formula and procedure we follow to determine how many and which bundles to check. If the mailing fails to meet standards it is returned to the customer to be reworked and the person presenting the mailing is held hostage until it is correct. NO!! That part is not true.

If the mailing is properly presented my next task is to confirm that the amount of postage the customer claimed is correct. Then I have to deduct it from his account, update the account of the computer and take the cash or check up to the window clerk. Once I have done that, I give the customer his receipt and we are done.

There are a lot of other things a postal clerk does; some of which I did, some
I did not do. We maintain the PO Box sections. Which means we keep track of when rents are due and notify the boxholder. We close boxes for which payment has not been made and forward the remaining mail-or mail which has come in post-closure. We order keys and change locks if someone has lost their keys.

We maintain more reports than I can count. I'm not saying these are terribly difficult jobs, but being a postal clerk is a lot more than throwing a letter in a slot.

Now why don't you tell me what you do, because I may have already done it.
I did not work my entire life at the Post Office. I worked for an insurance company as an underwriter. I worked as a purchasing expediter for Motorola.
I worked inside sales and customer service. And in the army, I worked with the storage and maintainence of classified documents and had a Top Secret clearance.

[ElKabong]

I was ready to let it die, but since you brought it up, mosty, those ARE menial jobs that can (and are) be performed by unskilled workers..... But back to your comment "still thinks that Post Office salaries are paid from taxes."

The Postal service has lost BILLIONS recently, per quarter. BILLIONS. Your union may not be the only reason for the failure of this organization, it certainly IS one of the problems and has to be addressed.

From wiki, one of your favorite links, re: funding of the USPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Postal_Service

it does receive tens to hundreds of millions per year in "implicit subsidies", such as breaks on property tax, vehicle registration, and sales tax, in addition to subsidized government loans.[6] Since the 2006 all-time peak mail volume [7], after which Congress passed the "Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act"[8], revenue dropped sharply due to recession-influenced [9] declining mail volume,[10], prompting the postal service to look to other sources of revenue while cutting costs to reduce its budget deficit.[11]

Tax breaks...subsidized government loans (meaning someone other than the USPS pays the interest)...You're reaching into my pocket now. I have a voice among others & it's being heard at the polls. You heard it last night.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by lsbets

The issue in Wisconsin was not unions in general. It was the corrupt nature of public employee unions. The unions make huge campaign contributions to the very politicians who vote to give them compensation packages way out of line with what private sector employees make. Don't do what the unions want, they make sure you lose your job. What Walker did was stop the bribery and cut off the cash cow that fed the public employee union bosses and the politicians they purchased. Only a government employee would think this is a bad thing. The unions through a temper tantrum, moved bodies in from all over the country, and got their asses kicked. The people won.

Originally Posted by iwearpurple

I find it interesting that those on the left have no clue. As an employee, I provide a service to the employer, who in turn pays me a wage or salary. EVERY employer will pay an employee what he or she is worth. I don't need a union to determine my pay. I can do that myself. If I don't make enough, I need to take the initative to better myself, work harder, educate myself, whatever it takes to increase my pay. If the employer does not pay what the employee is worth, the employee will go elsewhere where they will be compensated fairly for what they do and/or produce.

I am now retired. The company that I worked for paid very well and had excellent benefits. I worked very hard, worked late when necessary, and was rewarded accordingly.

Oh yes, this company is also very successful and has been succesful for all of their 60+ years since their inception.

That is the way free enterprise should work and it does. When government and unions get in the way, it does not work.

Two REALLY good posts that deal with reality.

The position NJ & Mostpost hold, is fantasyland.

How is it they continue to use "workers." The only "workers" they talk about are their peers in unions. Workers are found exponentially more OUTSIDE of union shenanigans. At least be honest and frame your narrative properly.

You speak for union flunkies only.

NEWSBREAK. There's more of us than you.

[Bettowin]

Originally Posted by lsbets

The issue in Wisconsin was not unions in general. It was the corrupt nature of public employee unions. The unions make huge campaign contributions to the very politicians who vote to give them compensation packages way out of line with what private sector employees make. Don't do what the unions want, they make sure you lose your job. What Walker did was stop the bribery and cut off the cash cow that fed the public employee union bosses and the politicians they purchased. Only a government employee would think this is a bad thing. The unions through a temper tantrum, moved bodies in from all over the country, and got their asses kicked. The people won.

AMEN!