|
|
05-24-2018, 10:05 PM
|
#16
|
Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
PVAL would have had a field day with this interpretation.
|
No ffiiing kidding!!! Great Post!!!!!
__________________
Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood.
|
|
|
05-24-2018, 10:20 PM
|
#17
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Its that whole "did it cost a horse a placing"...that can create a lot of wiggle room for the stewards to make bad decisions.
|
Agreed. The whole concept of "did the incident cost a horse a better placing" is backwards. It would be much more logical if the concept was "did the offender gain an advantage or placing by his actions"....So, the process should be, first determine if there was a foul. After such determination is made, then decide if the winner gained a placing by causing the rule infraction. If it's a determined foul by the rules and the breaking of the rule caused an advantage for the perpetrator, then make the disqualification. If the infraction had no impact on the order of the finish, then let the results stand.......In cases with horses who finish 3rd instead of 2nd (cost a better placing), there is no logic in making a horse who was never going to win, anyway, the declared winner and it is hugely disrespectful to the bettors. Redistributing millions of dollars to undeserving parties at the windows, so an owner like Sheikh Mohammed or Mike Repole can get a few more dollars in purse money makes no sense at all. Besides, owners are well versed in that bad racing luck can cost you a placing, but if you take money out of the pockets from a well deserved bettor (your customers) by putting up a horse who had no business winning, you may lose a customer, for a day, week, year, forever..
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 03:31 AM
|
#18
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
|
From CHRB 2016.
COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: Yeah. What my concern is, as with this whole rule but specifically with this, is sometimes floating is the most beautiful race riding you’ll ever see, really and truthfully. And when you put it like this it would depend upon, I think, the mindset of the stewards and what they’re looking at. And I think sometimes by trying to identify it so minutely I’m concerned that we’re going to cause more problems than we’re going to solve. That’s my concern.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Don’t the rules say that you’re supposed to stay in a straight line? COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: Right.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: But floating, now that’s a way of intimidating too. I mean people don’t go on the freeway and take another car out because it’s going to cause a problem.
COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: Have you ever driven behind me?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I don’t know.
VICE CHAIR ROSENBERG: Madeline, I think --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: But my point with with the floating, I mean, to me race riding is where you get a horse stuck on the inside and keep them in there. That’s, to me, that’s race riding. To me if you push a horse out, I have gone back to those barns where I push a horse out and brush them, and you go back to the barn and they’re all cut up. To me that’s not race riding, that’s careless. And floating to me is the same thing. VICE CHAIR ROSENBERG: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, you can call it --
CHAIRMAN WINNER: I think that’s the way the stewards felt when they, when they recommended this language. They felt that floating is exactly what --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: It’s illegal.
CHAIRMAN WINNER: -- Commissioner Solis is saying.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, it’s, yeah, it helps you to win races.
COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: You’ve done it, huh?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, it’s, yeah, it helps you to win races. Yes, I have done it. But at the same time you’re taking that horse out, but that horse is going to the side. It’s not going in a straight line. If you go to the side it’s changing a different kind of stride, and that’s where they can be hurt.
VICE CHAIR ROSENBERG: And, Madeline, to float is not a penalty here. It’s not interference. You have to read of it which goes on to say, “or otherwise causing any other horse to lose stride, ground, et cetera. So it’s not just the floating, it’s the second part.
COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: I think my problem with it, Richard, is the subjectiveness, which is --
VICE CHAIR ROSENBERG: Well, it’s the system.
COMMISSIONER AUERBACH: -- in all rules.
VICE CHAIR ROSENBERG: Yeah.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 10:38 AM
|
#19
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
|
Last edited by Andy Asaro; 05-25-2018 at 10:45 AM.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 10:53 AM
|
#20
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Its interesting that they have Solis there, I always thought of him as a safer rider out there (I am sure he was not perfect).
This herding stuff is bullcrap, horse is in the 2 path and ends up in the 10 path because another horse is coming, I dont even care if there was contact, to me thats a dangerous move. Go watch the grass race that Castallano won on SA Derby day, he is all over that track, herded not one but two horses, weaved in to intimidate, weaved out to intimidate. Ridiculous and dangerous.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:10 AM
|
#21
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
You guys are looking for objectivity in an inherently subjective vocation.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:15 AM
|
#22
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
|
I could be wrong but I think some are missing the point. This is the first time ever high profile people in positions of authority have spoken out against and slammed Stewards at a major jurisdiction in such a public manner. It's awesome IMO
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:18 AM
|
#23
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
I could be wrong but I think some are missing the point. This is the first time ever high profile people in positions of authority have spoken out against and slammed Stewards at a major jurisdiction in such a public manner. It's awesome IMO
|
Well isnt there some irony in that, they are the ones coming up with the rules, which are so ambiguous no one knows how they are actually to be applied.
Its like the NFL catch rule. One crew see it one way, another see it this way....its the rule that is bad, though these particular stewards are taking it up a notch.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:19 AM
|
#24
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Well isnt there some irony in that, they are the ones coming up with the rules, which are so ambiguous no one knows how they are actually to be applied.
Its like the NFL catch rule. One crew see it one way, another see it this way....its the rule that is bad, though these particular stewards are taking it up a notch.
|
Ritvo, Alexander, Ike, et al don't make up the riding rules the CHRB does.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:27 AM
|
#25
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Ritvo, Alexander, Ike, et al don't make up the riding rules the CHRB does.
|
Thats who I am talking about, the CHRB, Auerbach, Solis, Winner....et all.
They can talk about changing out stewards all they want, its the rules and their application (which they oversee) that needs to be fixed.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:40 AM
|
#26
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Ritvo, Alexander, Ike, et al don't make up the riding rules the CHRB does.
|
CHAIRMAN WINNER: I think that’s the way the stewards felt when they, when they recommended this language. They felt that floating is exactly what --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: It’s illegal.
Call it what you want, floating, herding, whatever. It comes down to these tactics change a horses stride, even if it is not that obvious.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:44 AM
|
#27
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Thats who I am talking about, the CHRB, Auerbach, Solis, Winner....et all.
They can talk about changing out stewards all they want, its the rules and their application (which they oversee) that needs to be fixed.
|
They've changed the language before. It's the people in the Stewards positions who are the problem.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 11:51 AM
|
#28
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
They've changed the language before. It's the people in the Stewards positions who are the problem.
|
Then this problem would be isolated to socal.
I think the riding tactics are even more dangerous in NY.
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 12:18 PM
|
#29
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Then this problem would be isolated to socal.
I think the riding tactics are even more dangerous in NY.
|
The one that broke the camels back wasn't a riding tactic. Mike Smith was whipping right handed doing everything he could to straighten his mount out yet he got days. At the CHRB meeting Nick Alexander said he got a text from Mike saying he though he should have been DQ'd
|
|
|
05-25-2018, 12:21 PM
|
#30
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
|
New York is mostly consistent. If you drift in and put a horse tight on the rail, pretty much automatic DQ. If you drift out, no matter how far, you're safe 95% of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Rate This Thread |
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|