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Old 10-16-2018, 02:27 PM   #706
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Well, I'd say if a major league pitcher can throw a devastating curve ball, it isn't important for him to know any of the physics about why the ball curves.

In other terms, about anybody with a bit of science background can read scientific papers and determine if the conclusions are worth buying.

Decision-makers are not going to do anything to deal with the problem unless they first acknowledge the problem. Many of the anti-climate change people worry that fixing the CO2 problem will hurt industries and jobs. Certainly the word taxes is anathema to the right, so the idea of a carbon tax doesn't sound great.

The problem, if it is going to be solved, is going to be solved by younger generations who don't want to live in the miserable place their parents and grandparents left them.
You are postulating climate deniers "with a bit of science background can read scientific papers and determine if the conclusions are worth buying"

True if their political preconceptions do not interfere with objectivity. Notice how often I am accused of being a "lying liberal" for posting scientific articles and papers.

I have been one of the few supporting the scientific consensus on the dozen or so threads we have had on off topic since 2003.

In fact I would say the crazy conspiracy theories on off topic started with the AGW threads
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:13 PM   #707
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You are postulating climate deniers "with a bit of science background can read scientific papers and determine if the conclusions are worth buying"

True if their political preconceptions do not interfere with objectivity. Notice how often I am accused of being a "lying liberal" for posting scientific articles and papers.

I have been one of the few supporting the scientific consensus on the dozen or so threads we have had on off topic since 2003.

In fact I would say the crazy conspiracy theories on off topic started with the AGW threads
Probably one of the top 5 reasons people don't believe is YOU!
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:15 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing View Post
Well, I'd say if a major league pitcher can throw a devastating curve ball, it isn't important for him to know any of the physics about why the ball curves.

In other terms, about anybody with a bit of science background can read scientific papers and determine if the conclusions are worth buying.

Decision-makers are not going to do anything to deal with the problem unless they first acknowledge the problem. Many of the anti-climate change people worry that fixing the CO2 problem will hurt industries and jobs. Certainly the word taxes is anathema to the right, so the idea of a carbon tax doesn't sound great.

The problem, if it is going to be solved, is going to be solved by younger generations who don't want to live in the miserable place their parents and grandparents left them.
im for letting the younger generation do that. In twenty or thirty years when they’re at an age they can do something about it they’ll realize it’s been a scam the whole time
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:19 PM   #709
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im for letting the younger generation do that. In twenty or thirty years when they’re at an age they can do something about it they’ll realize it’s been a scam the whole time
Hey Tom! This is alt right politics interfering in science.

The international Al Gore/ socialistic/liberal/cosmic/cabal that has completely taken over all the scientists, universities and all scientific governmental and non-governmental organizations ion every country in the world.:lol :

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Old 10-16-2018, 04:41 PM   #710
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Al Gore, the guy who says the center of the Earth is millions of degrees?
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:45 PM   #711
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Al Gore, the guy who says the center of the Earth is millions of degrees?
Don't forget he also invented the internet
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:08 PM   #712
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You are postulating climate deniers "with a bit of science background can read scientific papers and determine if the conclusions are worth buying"

True if their political preconceptions do not interfere with objectivity. Notice how often I am accused of being a "lying liberal" for posting scientific articles and papers.

I have been one of the few supporting the scientific consensus on the dozen or so threads we have had on off topic since 2003.

In fact I would say the crazy conspiracy theories on off topic started with the AGW threads
o

What exactly they think is going on is a puzzle to me. When I was in the political business I noticed even a lot of hard core right wing people stopped arguing about whether the earth was warning. However, they still wouldn't concede it was anthropogenic activity that caused the warming. Or they would trot out that lame argument that once there was a guy in the 1970's who said the earth was cooling, and we need to make up our minds about whether it was too hot or too cold.

Neither science nor math is as malleable as the anti-global climate change folks would like. And it party loyalty causes them to not see what is going on, I wouldn't know what to do to change that.

All I can say is be happy knowing you're right and they're wrong about the climate changing and quit trying to be the Elmer Gantry of the PA Climate Change thread.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:16 PM   #713
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Party loyalty?
Hardly.

What I see is a lot of people making money off of this, driving around in SUVs and world leaders of a lot of S-hole countries flying around in huge JETS going to meting to tell US how to run out country.

NOTHING will stop GW unless ti ia world-wide effort - ALL the major contributors doing their share. WHEN the rest of them start doing theirs, THEN we can consider doing ours. Until then, SCREW them all.

The GW fear mongers tried to take away our light bulbs! But in fact, CHINA was prepared to make then at a FAR worse impat than what we have here. But that was ok with the chicken-little hcaps of the world as longs WE were punished.

IF the glob heats up, so what? WE will adapt to it. The planet changes. It hasn't ever stopped changing. It will never stop changing. There is zero change we can stop it or make it stay where it is now. Zero chance.

Move inland, people.
God gave you a brain and legs. Use them.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:08 AM   #714
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Party loyalty?
Hardly.

What I see is a lot of people making money off of this, driving around in SUVs and world leaders of a lot of S-hole countries flying around in huge JETS going to meting to tell US how to run out country.

NOTHING will stop GW unless ti ia world-wide effort - ALL the major contributors doing their share. WHEN the rest of them start doing theirs, THEN we can consider doing ours. Until then, SCREW them all.

The GW fear mongers tried to take away our light bulbs! But in fact, CHINA was prepared to make then at a FAR worse impat than what we have here. But that was ok with the chicken-little hcaps of the world as longs WE were punished.

IF the glob heats up, so what? WE will adapt to it. The planet changes. It hasn't ever stopped changing. It will never stop changing. There is zero change we can stop it or make it stay where it is now. Zero chance.

Move inland, people.
God gave you a brain and legs. Use them.
It's going to be hard for an ocean to affect me. I made a good move by going to a place with 14,000 foot mountains between me and the Pacific.

Nobody was taking away your light bulbs. There were states like Nevada that mandated CFL's or LED's for some purpose other than to screw people, but not every state went that way (I'll bet NY did).

We now have bulbs that last a long time. I've lived in my current house 13 years and there are some bulbs I've never had to change. Yeah, I saved a wagon-full of money not having to replace bulbs. Plus they're getting cheaper all the time.

Other countries are hopping on board the GW train, not because we want them to, but because they are tired of living in places that look like Pittsburgh in the 40's. I'm sensitive to this because at some time in my life I breathed something or ate something or drank something that caused a gene to mutate and give me a rare form of leukemia, which I'm still fighting. You have to balance environmental quality with cost, but at the end of the day something that will mess you up internally is worth whatever we spend getting rid of it.

Yes the planet changes, but it changes as a result of some internal or external force. Volcanoes, the tilt of the axis, meteors - something stimulates the change. You've got to grasp the fact that the correlation between CO2 emissions and warming make a pretty good case for anthropogenic change. We do what we're willing to do and if that isn't enough we look for other things to do.

Of course we can change CO2 emissions. It might hurt, but it can be done with current technology. We're incredibly close to 24/7 utility-scale solar power. I've been to place like Nellis AFB in Las Vegas where half their electricity comes from solar panels. The Colonel I spoke with figured the savings in electricity cost was money that can go into defense. We're close to batteries that will store hours of wind generated electricity. That's the decision the Congress needs to make sooner rather than later.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:52 AM   #715
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing View Post
o

What exactly they think is going on is a puzzle to me. When I was in the political business I noticed even a lot of hard core right wing people stopped arguing about whether the earth was warning. However, they still wouldn't concede it was anthropogenic activity that caused the warming. Or they would trot out that lame argument that once there was a guy in the 1970's who said the earth was cooling, and we need to make up our minds about whether it was too hot or too cold.

Neither science nor math is as malleable as the anti-global climate change folks would like. And it party loyalty causes them to not see what is going on, I wouldn't know what to do to change that.

All I can say is be happy knowing you're right and they're wrong about the climate changing and quit trying to be the Elmer Gantry of the PA Climate Change thread.
Elmer Gantry more aptly describes the "preaching" semi-evangelical fanatics on the alt right. This board is dominated by fanatics like Tom....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
What I see is a lot of people making money off of this, driving around in SUVs and world leaders of a lot of S-hole countries flying around in huge JETS going to meting to tell US how to run out country..
Who think there is a cosmic cabal manipulating the world's scientists, and scientific organizations into tricking everyone, mesmerizing the "good ole' boys" of Amurica, while immorally personally driving around in environmental laissez-faire gas guzzlers.

Paranoia on steroids.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:25 AM   #716
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It's going to be hard for an ocean to affect me. I made a good move by going to a place with 14,000 foot mountains between me and the Pacific.

Nobody was taking away your light bulbs. There were states like Nevada that mandated CFL's or LED's for some purpose other than to screw people, but not every state went that way (I'll bet NY did).

We now have bulbs that last a long time. I've lived in my current house 13 years and there are some bulbs I've never had to change. Yeah, I saved a wagon-full of money not having to replace bulbs. Plus they're getting cheaper all the time.

Other countries are hopping on board the GW train, not because we want them to, but because they are tired of living in places that look like Pittsburgh in the 40's. I'm sensitive to this because at some time in my life I breathed something or ate something or drank something that caused a gene to mutate and give me a rare form of leukemia, which I'm still fighting. You have to balance environmental quality with cost, but at the end of the day something that will mess you up internally is worth whatever we spend getting rid of it.

Yes the planet changes, but it changes as a result of some internal or external force. Volcanoes, the tilt of the axis, meteors - something stimulates the change. You've got to grasp the fact that the correlation between CO2 emissions and warming make a pretty good case for anthropogenic change. We do what we're willing to do and if that isn't enough we look for other things to do.

Of course we can change CO2 emissions. It might hurt, but it can be done with current technology. We're incredibly close to 24/7 utility-scale solar power. I've been to place like Nellis AFB in Las Vegas where half their electricity comes from solar panels. The Colonel I spoke with figured the savings in electricity cost was money that can go into defense. We're close to batteries that will store hours of wind generated electricity. That's the decision the Congress needs to make sooner rather than later.
I don't think you can solve earth's problems with money or micro management. I think you have to do what mankind has always done.....move. I think President Trump has already floated the right idea to solve the problem.....SPACE FORCE.

This is an old idea that will be washed and rinsed. Hopefully, this time it will not become a political football. Just one more reason for term limits. Lifelong politicians always have their pet s**tholes.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:53 AM   #717
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Of course we can change CO2 emissions. It might hurt, but it can be done with current technology.
Operative word being "we."
We can't do it alone.
We need the cooperation of the globe.

When the rest of the players start acting like this is important, and the so-called leaders start walking the walk, then we can address it.

Until then, WE don't need to hurt at all. Because US alone will not do anything.

IF it is going to hurt, then is it has to hurt EVERYONE.
No EXCEPTIONS.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #718
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Operative word being "we."
We can't do it alone.
We need the cooperation of the globe.

When the rest of the players start acting like this is important, and the so-called leaders start walking the walk, then we can address it.

Until then, WE don't need to hurt at all. Because US alone will not do anything.

IF it is going to hurt, then is it has to hurt EVERYONE.
No EXCEPTIONS.
How about we are one of the few major emission leaders not part of the Paris Accords?

You are repeating yourself. We had this discussion about China back on 09-30-2018.

I wrote in #419....
................................................
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However not all waste energy as much as we do. The price of wanton wasteful industrialization is more carbon in the ecosystem. However not all industrialized countries, many with standards of living equal to ours areas wasteful as we are and pay more attention to how important carbon output is to the planet. And surprise, surprise, China is beginning to show up at the forefront. They are indeed making some efforts

11 countries leading the charge on renewable energy

SWEDEN. In 2015, Sweden threw down the gauntlet with an ambitious goal: eliminating fossil fuel usage within its borders, and immediately ramping up investment in solar, wind, energy storage, smart grids, and clean transport. ...
COSTA RICA. ...
NICARAGUA. ...
SCOTLAND. ...
GERMANY. ...
URUGUAY. ...
DENMARK. ...
CHINA.

The 5 Countries That Produce the Most Solar Energy

Germany. Germany has long been at the forefront of solar power and produced a total of 38.2 gigawatts (GW) out of 177 GW produced globally in 2014. ...
China. As the nation with the largest population and carbon footprint, China's clear commitment to renewable energy is encouraging. ...
Japan. ...
Italy. ...
The US.

Which countries produce the most wind energy?

China (1/10) With a capacity of 114,763 Megawatts in 2014, China has by far the world's biggest wind power sector, accounting for 31% of the global total. ...
United States (2/10) ...
Germany (3/10) ...
Spain (4/10) ...
India (5/10) ...
United Kingdom (6/10) ...
Canada (7/10) ...
France (8/10)
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:06 PM   #719
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What exactly they think is going on is a puzzle to me.
Too many instances of cooking the books regarding the data or the formula behind the models used to predict the temp trends.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:29 PM   #720
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Operative word being "we."
We can't do it alone.
We need the cooperation of the globe.

When the rest of the players start acting like this is important, and the so-called leaders start walking the walk, then we can address it.

Until then, WE don't need to hurt at all. Because US alone will not do anything.

IF it is going to hurt, then is it has to hurt EVERYONE.
No EXCEPTIONS.
I totally agree with that
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