Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Handicapping Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 01-29-2019, 03:16 PM   #1
kyle r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 199
How to create a better live bankroll tournament.

The major live bankroll tournaments have a common flaw. They all boil down to the final race, It would be better if you could write the rules to promote more balanced play. You would make the tournaments better tests, more exciting, and increase handle.
Here's how you do it: you take some of the prize money and redirect it to "Leader Awards" that accrue immediately to bankroll. The major tourneys are all pretty much two day affairs, so; you would award the day one leader a bonus and then on day two you would pay out bonuses at certain intervals throughout the day. Just by doing this you would incentivise players to get involved in bigger ways earlier in the contest. It's not just that there is prize money to be won along the way, but a loose leader can accumulate bankroll that can make him much harder to catch. If you instituted leader awards you could also do away with most of the mandatory wagering rules. I would replace those rules with one that only required players to bet their entire starting bankroll by the penultimate race. It would simply the rules and create a double flourish at the end. Do these things and you would create a more satisfying paradigm while seeing handle and excitement zoom..
kyle r is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:35 PM   #2
Immortal6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,047
I agree somewhat with your assessment. Handicapping contests with no limits on wager type/amount are as much about bankroll management and throwing a lot of money at the final race, as they are about actually handicapping and finding winners.

3 types of tournaments I've participated in include 1) the above tournament format, 2) a win wager only tournament with no restriction on amount of wager or number of races, and 3) a tournament with a dozen or so selected races from various tracks where you are required to place a mythical W/P wager on a single horse in each race.

From a pure handicapping standpoint option 3 finds the best pure capper imo but doesn't reward those adept at exotics and those who understand bankroll management.

The second option is a good balance of both.

Your idea of paying out a percentage of the pot to the leader after "X" race(s) is a good idea, but I'm not sure it will prevent a lot of players from waiting for that final race to blow the remainder on their bankroll. I think it's human nature "FOMO" to not want to throw a lot of money on a race that isn't the final race for fear of not lasting until the last race of the day.

In the end, everyone has their personal preferences. If I had it my way tournaments would be limited to WPS, ex/tri/sup. with a wager limit of $20 in any one race.
Immortal6 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:46 PM   #3
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
Limits limits limits.

Nothing boils down to the last race if the leader is so far ahead it's hopeless.
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:48 PM   #4
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
Did I ever tell you I won the Bally Bowl twice?

What's the Bally Bowl? It was a football contest run in Atlantic City.
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:50 PM   #5
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,388
IMO...tournaments should be conducted exactly as live play is currently carried out. The participants should not be told beforehand what races or wager types to make; they should just be given a starting bankroll and turned loose to bet whatever race and whatever wager they like. And the final bankroll becomes the criteria for the tournament payoffs. Race selection and money management are crucial aspects of the horseplaying process...and they should be decisions that are left to the discretion of the player, and not to the whim of the tournament coordinators. And, most importantly, the tournament participants should be kept in the dark about the tournament standings while there are still bets to be made in the tourney. The deciding factor for the wagers should be the skill and experience of the participating players...not the desperation that they feel when they see that they are trailing badly in the tournament standings.
__________________
Live to play another day.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:53 PM   #6
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
When I went in to collect my first 7 grand I said I'll be back.

They said, "how do you know that?"

Needless to say I did.
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 08:58 PM   #7
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
IMO...tournaments should be conducted exactly as live play is currently carried out. The participants should not be told beforehand what races or wager types to make; they should just be given a starting bankroll and turned loose to bet whatever race and whatever wager they like. And the final bankroll becomes the criteria for the tournament payoffs. Race selection and money management are crucial aspects of the horseplaying process...and they should be decisions that are left to the discretion of the player, and not to the whim of the tournament coordinators. And, most importantly, the tournament participants should be kept in the dark about the tournament standings while there are still bets to be made in the tourney. The deciding factor for the wagers should be the skill and experience of the participating players...not the desperation that they feel when they see that they are trailing badly in the tournament standings.
That's an interesting point thaskalos.

One of the things I would say to the trailing players is ok, how do you plan to overtake me when I already know what you're going to do?
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 09:09 PM   #8
kyle r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 199
Originally posted by Immortal6
"I'm not sure it will prevent a lot of players from waiting for that final race to blow the remainder on their bankroll. I think it's human nature "FOMO" to not want to throw a lot of money on a race that isn't the final race for fear of not lasting until the last race of the day."


The way it would prevent that would be making that strategy ineffective and too costly. If players continued to win employing the current strategy then I would be wrong.

Last edited by kyle r; 01-29-2019 at 09:11 PM. Reason: added attribution
kyle r is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 09:14 PM   #9
kyle r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 199
Originally posted by Buckeye
Limits limits limits.

No host wants to impose limits.

Last edited by kyle r; 01-29-2019 at 09:15 PM.
kyle r is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2019, 09:16 PM   #10
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
Basically in a contest, and I mean any contest, it pays to be right early and late.

Sour grapes otherwise in my opinion.
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-30-2019, 08:42 AM   #11
biggestal99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
No leaderboard until the final race is concluded.

Allan
biggestal99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-30-2019, 09:08 AM   #12
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
Not much of a torny guy, so I don't know how it works, but I would think your starting bankroll should NOT be enough to make are the mandatory bets.
You should have to earn the right to finish.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-30-2019, 10:28 AM   #13
kyle r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99 View Post
No leaderboard until the final race is concluded.

Allan
In no other game, contest, or sport do you not know the score. So even though I get what your getting at I don"t think that's a viable option. You have to keep a couple things in mind. First, tracks run these contests for the increased handle. Anything that inhibits handle is a non-starter. In fact, the model we want to promote is one in which there are no entry fees, just a bankroll buy-in, and the track puts up all the prize money...ala The Pegasus world Cup Betting Challenge. The other thing to keep in mind is that tournaments need to be exciting, so not knowing the score kind of kills that as well. So, the current state of affairs is not bad. The tracks are getting a good handle boost from live money tourneys; they are exciting, although the drama is too condensed; and while the formats aren't unfair, per se, it would be better from all important standpoints, that is those aforementioned, that the final race become less crucial. So, that's what my plan aims to do. If you disagree with anything I've written I'd welcome a specific critique. Thanks.
kyle r is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-30-2019, 01:00 PM   #14
HalvOnHorseracing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
I'll admit that at the NHC my initial strategy was flawed. I was betting for winners (and did fine picking them), but soon realized I was getting my ass kicked by someone with a max winner. One max winner ($64) is better than 5 winners at 3-1. I guarantee there were quite a few handicappers who did what they always did - look for solid horses, while the contest leaders were shrewdly catching higher paying horses. Late in the tournament I adopted a strategy of betting the best horse over 10-1. I finished a nostril hair away from getting a nice check when a 37-1 longshot was short an inch or two. Anyway, it's an interesting strategy, but I think it would take a lot of practice to get it right.
HalvOnHorseracing is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-30-2019, 02:23 PM   #15
ReplayRandall
Buckle Up
 
ReplayRandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
Got an idea I'll share, just as soon as I find it in my notes...
ReplayRandall is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.