RIP to Mongolian Groom and CA Racing

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Getting the message across doesn't exist in a vacuum without actions and results.

Please list the ways racing needs to move in ways that will "actually improve the health and safety of the horses and humans who participate".

Here's my list:
We need to get the drugs out of racing and quit treating weakened or damaged musculoskeletal structures with injections instead of well-needed rest at the farm.
We need to work on decreasing deaths and continue to look at and study hard data whether that be about surfaces, biphosphonates, meds given as off-label use to horses who have not been diagnosed with a medical condition (whether that be Thyro-L, snake venom, no difference to me!)
We need to do away with claiming races.
We need much harsher penalties for drug positives.
We need to stop breeding only for speed.
We need more transparency in racing.
We need to be proactive instead of reactive.
We need the Horseracing Integrity Act passed.
We need to take licenses away from trainers who regularly have horses that keep showing up in the kill pens 3 days after their last race with their racing plates still on, and we need to send in the Big Guys to investigate the tracks, track officials, and connections where that kind of crap is going on..........

Which do you think will bring about positive changes? Putting brain power and energy toward solutions........or crying about how f-ed up PETA is???

You must be spending a lot of time on the Hong Kong Jockey Club Web site. I've been preaching the emulation of the HK model for quite a while. I've also rationalized why their model unfortunately won't be replicated here in the States. Other than the form of their regulating body, there's just a big difference in the racing philosophies.

Yes they certainly enforce the strict regulations, but the primary difference between the HK product and what we have locally is that they race for the purpose of Racing. Where as the racing here is done for the purpose of Breeding.

Its kind of ironic that other than the small percentage of Stakes races that we have (which point to the eventual breeding stock) the left overs in the Claiming ranks make up the majority of races on every card. I believe that this may be one of the reasons that many of the heavy hitters here in the States prefer to play these Stakes races. Its a question of which Class of animal offers competition with the most consistency. Perhaps that's why so much is bet on days like the Breeders Cup. In HK they offer BC quality racing 2 days a week and betting pools to match!

I could go on and on with these type of comparisons. However, I feel that while it might be of interest to others here on PA who have raised many legitimate concerns about the game, the majority of our positive suggestions are just falling on deaf ears. Too bad because the PETA organization literally wouldn't have a leg to stand on and could be put down for the same reasons as an injured animal.
.
.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Understood, though it's a double-edged sword. The more and better and available the information, the lower the prices you get on the winners.

Obviously you don't follow Hong Kong racing at all!!!!
They not only offer more thorough and concise information.
Its all for FREE.
Someone there has some very creative marketing skills. It doesn't take a genius to see how all this transparency impacts the size of both their attendance and of course the betting pools.

[the little guy]

Two posts from Nitro and both brought Hong Kong into the conversation. Call me shocked.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Two posts from Nitro and both brought Hong Kong into the conversation. Call me shocked.

Let’s face it Little Guy those types of comments must hard for you swallow. Because any player with half a brain and some real concerns about the value of their time and money could recognize the obvious disparities between the HK game and what’s been offered here in the States. Some people I guess just get too accustomed to things and accept them as they are. It’s like their brains are set in concrete. That’s too bad because it’s their loss.

BTW you personally might want to take a few hints from the HK TV commentators and see they how they provide their pre-race information. But don’t feel that I’m picking on you, because I’ve also offered the same suggestions to TVG.

[the little guy]

Make that three Hong Kong related posts.

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Two posts from Nitro and both brought Hong Kong into the conversation. Call me shocked.

A few more months of this turmoil, any mention will be moot

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Nitro

You must be spending a lot of time on the Hong Kong Jockey Club Web site.

Originally Posted by Nitro

However, I feel that while it might be of interest to others here on PA who have raised many legitimate concerns about the game, the majority of our positive suggestions are just falling on deaf ears.

Actually Nitro, I do not spend a lot of time on the HK website.

I actually compiled that list I made in my other post DIRECTLY from the very good and thoughful suggestions that members here contributed to this topic.

I just kept track of them, then added 1 or 2 of my own.

So I don't think legitamate concerns about the game are falling on deaf ears. There are plenty of people who see what needs to be done. And of course, those who are not going to enter the topic at all, but feel the same way, but don't like confrontation.


Unfortunately, as I mentioned in the other topic, I've had 3 close friends leave racing this year. I feel a great deal of actual *grief* over that. They got tired of waiting for changes and they felt they could no longer fully support racing due to having ethical concerns. These were dyed in the wool racing fans who brought ME into the game.

So part of the reason I get hot about this stuff is because I feel like I'm staying in ---- BECAUSE I want to stick around for the good stuff that will happen and I feel a debt to help make that happen because of those guys. I don't know if that makes any sense but I am just not ready to walk away but I do like to be around thoughtful people who care about more than just whether they cashed a ticket. I actually felt GOOD after the BC, because I felt like they did a fantastic job, and that gave me hope for "how it could be".

I guess we'll see. If horse racing integrity act doesn't get passed soon.........I dunno........

[GMB@BP]

Will Hong Kong racing still exists once it becomes just like the rest of China?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Will Hong Kong racing still exists once it becomes just like the rest of China?

Well, you can go on google maps and calculate the distance from Victoria Park (where the protests are centered) and the Happy Valley racecourse (one of the two HK tracks).

I'd say the protests certainly have the potential of drastically affecting Hong Kong racing, though they were still chugging along when I was there last month.

Having said all that, I don't think the Hong Kong model is directly replicable here- they run 18 races a week!

But clicknow's list is very good, and the only two things I would emphasize are the two biggest issues are drugs and track safety. Racing should be under WADA doping protocols with out of competition testing, immediate suspensions of trainers with only very narrow grounds to appeal, and a complete ban on raceday medications. And we should bring back synthetic track mandates.

If we did those two things (anti-doping and synthetic tracks) I am convinced we could cut the breakdown rate by 75 percent or more.

(And federal legislation would make it easier to do those two things, because the horsemen have way too much power at the state level.)

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Well, you can go on google maps and calculate the distance from Victoria Park (where the protests are centered) and the Happy Valley racecourse (one of the two HK tracks).

I'd say the protests certainly have the potential of drastically affecting Hong Kong racing, though they were still chugging along when I was there last month.

Having said all that, I don't think the Hong Kong model is directly replicable here- they run 18 races a week!

But clicknow's list is very good, and the only two things I would emphasize are the two biggest issues are drugs and track safety. Racing should be under WADA doping protocols with out of competition testing, immediate suspensions of trainers with only very narrow grounds to appeal, and a complete ban on raceday medications. And we should bring back synthetic track mandates.

If we did those two things (anti-doping and synthetic tracks) I am convinced we could cut the breakdown rate by 75 percent or more.

(And federal legislation would make it easier to do those two things, because the horsemen have way too much power at the state level.)

Reducing the U.S. rate by 75% would bring it down to 0.417 per 1,000 starts(per the referenced Bloodhorse article stating the current rate being 1.67). The HK rate is 0.6 per 1,000 starts. I think your outlook is a little optimistic.

My point is that even if we took yours and clicknow's suggestions to heart. Spent all this money converting to synthetic surfaces, implementing additional testing, kicking trainers out which would piss off a lot of people and gamblers because fields would be smaller with fewer trainers, mandating aftercare, etc. This would cost so much that half the tracks would have to close. And even then, the most optimistic I see would be a 50% reduction, and would that be enough to "matter?" "Matter" meaning changing the image of the sport with the public to the point where it attracts more fans and gets the politicians of it.

Your suggestions didn't even talk about changing the breed, which would be well-nigh impossible, but absolutely crucial. Mandate breeders to produce a healthier, sturdier, more durable (but aghast, slower, yikes!) animal? Who's going to buy that horse? If I buy a yearling today, the chances of it breaking down on the track is a lot lower that the chances of it actually winning a race.

[ubercapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Well, you can go on google maps and calculate the distance from Victoria Park (where the protests are centered) and the Happy Valley racecourse (one of the two HK tracks).

I'd say the protests certainly have the potential of drastically affecting Hong Kong racing, though they were still chugging along when I was there last month.

Having said all that, I don't think the Hong Kong model is directly replicable here- they run 18 races a week!

But clicknow's list is very good, and the only two things I would emphasize are the two biggest issues are drugs and track safety. Racing should be under WADA doping protocols with out of competition testing, immediate suspensions of trainers with only very narrow grounds to appeal, and a complete ban on raceday medications. And we should bring back synthetic track mandates.

If we did those two things (anti-doping and synthetic tracks) I am convinced we could cut the breakdown rate by 75 percent or more.

(And federal legislation would make it easier to do those two things, because the horsemen have way too much power at the state level.)

Everyone, and I mean everyone, should take a moment and call their U.S. Representative to not only become a supporter of H.R. 1754, but to become a co-sponsor.



Then, when the act passes out of the house, even more pressure needs to be brought to bear on senators, which is needed to overcome the intransigence of the HBPA. HADA (which is the equivalent of WADA) which would be formed out of the bill, would then be able to bring 38 sets of regulatory agencies under one umbrella and that would go a long way to changing current perceptions in my opinion.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Reducing the U.S. rate by 75% would bring it down to 0.417 per 1,000 starts(per the referenced Bloodhorse article stating the current rate being 1.67). The HK rate is 0.6 per 1,000 starts. I think your outlook is a little optimistic.

My point is that even if we took yours and clicknow's suggestions to heart. Spent all this money converting to synthetic surfaces, implementing additional testing, kicking trainers out which would piss off a lot of people and gamblers because fields would be smaller with fewer trainers, mandating aftercare, etc. This would cost so much that half the tracks would have to close. And even then, the most optimistic I see would be a 50% reduction, and would that be enough to "matter?" "Matter" meaning changing the image of the sport with the public to the point where it attracts more fans and gets the politicians of it.

Your suggestions didn't even talk about changing the breed, which would be well-nigh impossible, but absolutely crucial. Mandate breeders to produce a healthier, sturdier, more durable (but aghast, slower, yikes!) animal? Who's going to buy that horse? If I buy a yearling today, the chances of it breaking down on the track is a lot lower that the chances of it actually winning a race.

My guess is that a real ban on doping would have an immediate impact on the breeding industry. Some sire lines would instantly become far less valuable.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Your suggestions didn't even talk about changing the breed, which would be well-nigh impossible, but absolutely crucial.

It would probably take a few generations to see the effects of getting the drugs out. That's fine, start now.

While I don't know enough about turf/tapeta/synthetic, ripping up the tracks is an expensive major undertaking. I would not go in that direction until other solutions are implemented.

I am convinced that Low level claiming races gotta go. I'm watching one now who ran in the Blue Grass, hasn't had a month off since he the day he set foot on the track and started racing in December of 2018 (4 months before the Blue Grass) , and is now racing with $5K claiming price. Last 4 races, 4 different trainers. (and about 3-4 different ones before that).

This to me is an example of how horses become tax write offs and *disposable*. I'm keeping an eye on him. A horse who ran in a $1 million dollar race, who less than a year later, has been passed around to this extent ---- and making a quick descent into the lowest ranks possible, watching everyone taking turns trying to get the last possible drop out. What would be good is if he gets some farm time, then a trainer takes the time and patience to keep him and run him for reasonable money, as horse appears to be sound at least for a certain level of racing. He ran ITM last 3, but of course, since he's dropping like an anchor in the lowest level claiming races, this isn't unusual (unless he was a total cripple) since he's only 3 years old. Salvagable under right circumstances? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it's been painful watching him go thru so many people like a hot potato.

I'm sure I will get bashed for pointing this out "because little people need to earn a living".

[The_Turf_Monster]

You're absolutely right, Clicknow. It's not just low level claiming races that need to go the way of the Buffalo but all claiming races imo

[AlsoEligible]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...-be-installed/

In a frank interview with Thoroughbred Daily News writer Daniel Ross, former California Horse Racing Board (CHRB) vice chair Madeline Auerbach said she thinks racing should have been suspended after the Breeders' Cup.

“In my view, the day after Breeders' Cup, I think they should've shut it down, announced that they were going to put in a synthetic [track], do whatever they needed to do to make that happen,” Auerbach told Ross, speaking of Santa Anita. “I know there's problems with getting material and everything. All of that aside, at some point somebody has to do something bold and brave, get us off the front page–not keep doing business as usual.”

I had a lot of respect for Auerbach but this comes across as a real chicken-shit move. "at some point somebody has to do something bold and brave" - yeah, why not you?

You sat on the board for this past year and continued letting SA run without so much as even proposing a surface change....and now after walking out the door you throw out this big juicy headline that PETA and the activists can take and run with.

Thanks for nothing, enjoy your retirement.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...C_YgEs.twitter

Reading the whole Q&A is pretty interesting, though. I'll give her credit for not mincing words when it comes to Newsom and his plans for the CHRB:

There’s never been this kind of interference to my knowledge on the board and what the board does. [Sacramento] wants to control it–pretty obvious. So, they were looking for the next candidate and it went down to [commissioner] Greg [Ferraro], who is going to be chair now. Don’t misunderstand me, I think Dr. Ferraro is a very, very intelligent man and I think he will do a great job and I am grateful that he agreed to try. But they’re getting what they want. They’ve gotten me to leave. They’ve gotten Fred [Maas] to throw up his hands and leave. They treated Chuck Winner so poorly.

I don’t know whether it’s the right direction for the board or not. I don’t think it’s the right direction for racing. How can you have people voting on issues when they really don’t have any historical knowledge or current knowledge about it?