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Old 11-04-2018, 12:25 AM   #31
JustRalph
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craig

I figured it out. The new track will be indoors.............great idea
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:26 AM   #32
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Here is a little information for you guys to chew on. When I walk into a Casino OTB in Nevada . I ask for a copy of the racing form . They give it to me for free . Why? Cause they know me and understand completely the theory of customer service. They don't charge me $6.50 for the form. They don't charge me for drinks and they usually throw me a meal and every few days a room. They do this because of a relationship built bewteen customer and business. It doesn't matter if I bet $20.00 that day or $20,000.00 they treat me the same.

So if you tell me that on opening day . There is no admission fee. My books are free. Drinks are free a food comp is waiting. Basically it costs me nothing before I make my first bet and I'd say that's a business going for it. If I walk through that door and offer you 20% of every dollar I wager I'd say you better offer me something in return to do that.
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:28 AM   #33
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craig

I figured it out. The new track will be indoors.............great idea

Nope but interestingly enough that's been tried . 😁
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:36 AM   #34
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That's the funny part . I would expect someone who works for them to certainly explain to me why I should give them my wagering dollar as opposed to the otb that's within walking distance of my front door or why I should even leave my house and use TVG.

Sadly enough I don't think you do work for them. What I think is you are running handicapping contests and making yourself visible by announcing races off the television in the hopes that they will give you your tenth shot at an announcing job in the states .

If you did work for them you wouldn't have put the disclaimer at the end of your post.

What I hope would happen here would be a discussion on possible motives for buying and reopening a track that has not failed once but twice. So while I will respect your opinion Craig I sort of suspected you to pop in here and give your two cents .
WOW!!! Did the tone of this thread take a HARD backhanded turn.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:20 AM   #35
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This has been an interesting thread.

The OTBs in Arizona that are owned and operated by turf are horrible. I have yet to see the Arizona Downs locations but judging by some of the stuff Craig posts they look much nicer then what is there. I appreciate what Craig is doing, so Craig don’t let some internet race track executive tell you otherwise.

There is much more at stake here that I’m sure will come out at some point. Think about it. Why in the world would anyone want to open a defunct track in a state like Arizona given the economics of it all? The other shoe will drop.

I hope the group succeeds and I’m sure will.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:03 AM   #36
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The OTBs run by TP are not horrible. As with everything you need to choose wisely and I'd recommend one of the entities in Scottsdale.I spent the BC on a completely redone patio at KODonnells where it was a nice fall 80 degree day.. Its clean, has a teller and a few machines.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:33 AM   #37
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Hey Spiketoo!

Consider it a personal invitation but please some out to one of our new OTB's maybe the one at Connolly's or at Bull Shooters. I would be happy to meet you there and discuss what we can do to enhance your playing experience and listen to your ideas to improve what we can do moving forward.

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Old 11-04-2018, 09:50 AM   #38
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Much obliged Craig but obviously location is a big factor for me. I have 3 TP OTBs in Scottsdale w/n 10 miles of me currently.
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:31 AM   #39
Threechimes
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Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe View Post
This has been an interesting thread.

The OTBs in Arizona that are owned and operated by turf are horrible. I have yet to see the Arizona Downs locations but judging by some of the stuff Craig posts they look much nicer then what is there. I appreciate what Craig is doing, so Craig don’t let some internet race track executive tell you otherwise.

There is much more at stake here that I’m sure will come out at some point. Think about it. Why in the world would anyone want to open a defunct track in a state like Arizona given the economics of it all? The other shoe will drop.

I hope the group succeeds and I’m sure will.


Internet executive lol! You just asked the same question I've asked ten times but in a different way. The question you asked has faith attached to it.

Last edited by Threechimes; 11-04-2018 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:36 AM   #40
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Much obliged Craig but obviously location is a big factor for me. I have 3 TP OTBs in Scottsdale w/n 10 miles of me currently.
Here is the problem they face . Thank you for posting . This guy has three otbs within ten miles of his front door. Also I'm sure he has an internet connection. So offering to meet him at one of your otbs is simply not enough to entice him . Now offer him a 5% rebate on live bets made at your otb and I'd guess he would show up.

If they had some new idea on how to attract new blood into the offtracks they would have implemented it already . You simply can't saturate an already thin market with new locations and expect people to stumble into the game.

Now I've heard rumors about a players club. That's great if it is a substantial rewards system and not a penny on the dollar type casino program. In all reality if this was done correctly they could put turf Paradise out of business . I'd be fine with that since they can't even agree to share signals .

Last edited by Threechimes; 11-04-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:00 PM   #41
Threechimes
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Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe View Post
This has been an interesting thread.

The OTBs in Arizona that are owned and operated by turf are horrible. I have yet to see the Arizona Downs locations but judging by some of the stuff Craig posts they look much nicer then what is there. I appreciate what Craig is doing, so Craig don’t let some internet race track executive tell you otherwise.

There is much more at stake here that I’m sure will come out at some point. Think about it. Why in the world would anyone want to open a defunct track in a state like Arizona given the economics of it all? The other shoe will drop.

I hope the group succeeds and I’m sure will.


MPJ: The reason most of TP off tracks are a complete failure is they gave up a long time ago caring about the player. My off track is in a busy bar . There is a teller and a self serve machine. There is no place to sit and five total televisions. So if ten tracks are running you can watch up to five. One of the televisions has been broken for a year. It has a bad picture. What does it tell you as a horse player that instead of replacing a $250.00 TV . They decided to let it go . LMAO!!!.

When the bar is busy on Friday and Saturday I assure you it's the last place you would want to watch and wager at. Turf Paradise is a complete abomination of what a track should be. They run 8 races with an average field size of 7-8 horses . Half of the field can be tossed due to misclassification or age. Usually it's a match race between 3/5 and 8/5 . On the off chance a horse fires at decent odds . The pick 3-4 wagers still have zero value because of small pools.

Arizona Downs has the opportunity to shut Turf Paradise doors if they chose to do things correctly or at the very least force them into a competition war for the dwindling wagering dollar in this state.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:19 PM   #42
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Here is a little information for you guys to chew on. When I walk into a Casino OTB in Nevada . I ask for a copy of the racing form . They give it to me for free . Why? Cause they know me and understand completely the theory of customer service. They don't charge me $6.50 for the form. They don't charge me for drinks and they usually throw me a meal and every few days a room. They do this because of a relationship built bewteen customer and business. It doesn't matter if I bet $20.00 that day or $20,000.00 they treat me the same.

So if you tell me that on opening day . There is no admission fee. My books are free. Drinks are free a food comp is waiting. Basically it costs me nothing before I make my first bet and I'd say that's a business going for it. If I walk through that door and offer you 20% of every dollar I wager I'd say you better offer me something in return to do that.

The key word here is Casino OTB, and you happen to be a lucky beneficiary. Those spinning bandits that require almost no thinking to play sure do bring in a lot of revenue. I suspect that if your place only had an OTB with no other lucrative forms of gambling revenue, you would not be getting free drinks and a racing form by wagering $20 per day. Customer Service can not operate in a vacuum outside of an understanding of sound business practices.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:27 PM   #43
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The key word here is Casino OTB, and you happen to be a lucky beneficiary. Those spinning bandits that require almost no thinking to play sure do bring in a lot of revenue. I suspect that if your place only had an OTB with no other lucrative forms of gambling revenue, you would not be getting free drinks and a racing form by wagering $20 per day. Customer Service can not operate in a vacuum outside of an understanding of sound business practices.
I agree to disagree. Let's actually break this down further . How many tracks in the USA have casinos attached to them? How many of those tracks give out the racing form or program free? None!

Let's look at the fresh blood market horse racing should go after. The young guys betting sports. Of I want to bet a football game. I can go online and get all the information I need to make a betting choice for FREE. Player and team and weather and trends etc etc is all available to me for free. I make my choice bet $110.00 to win $100.00

Now let's look at racing . If I want information I have to pay $6.50 for it . If I bet the same even money wager at the track . Now I'm paying 24% to make the same wager . Not to mention I have to beat a certain amount of other horses and trainers and who is juiced and who is not . I have to beat the jockeys or jockey who makes a bad decision. So beyond all these variables why the hell would I pay 24% to do that?


So please make a case for why anybody would do that who is new to the game. They won't . So how do we convert a certain amount of players to the game each year to grow the player pool?

Well the first thing is to get rid of all the crusty old non thinking idiots that run the game. No matter how you slice it you have to cut your take . You have to give people a logical and sound reason to wager.

The way you explain it is why should we give things out if we have no casino . Because nobody who is new to the game is going to buy information . Why? Cause they probably are not coming back. Holding race seminars for new players is stupid. It's way too confusing for them and half of them would need a ten week course . Racing has always made the huge mistake of trying to cater to the Average fan . When what they should be doing and done is cater to the guy who is there every day. The guy who knows guys who can be converted into hard core players.

Let's face facts . Hard core race gamblers are not fans . Me personally could care less about Derby's or Cups . Horse of the year awards . Blah! . I don't give a shit about horses getting hurt or jockeys getting hurt. The only thing as a Gambler I care about is the next soft spot I can find to wager my money on. Positive expected value .

I'm the guy that keeps this game running . I'm the guy who puts $200.00 into the pool on a Monday afternoon. There are many guys like me out here . But as long as the tracks decide to give grandma a buffet for playing $20.00 in penny slots and not guys like me . Then my wagering dollar goes to people who earn it . Like the ADW that offer me rebates and the sports books who give me a form and comps .


So to answer the question . For a track to charge me for a racing form is pathetic. Give it to me and I'll wager that $6.50 ten times over . Make me pay for it and I don't show up.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:03 PM   #44
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id call you a loser degenerate gambler if you dont care if the jockey or horses get hurt.i agree to a new gambler to fork over the money just to get in to wager is ridiculous and once the older patrons die off there will be no one left.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:30 PM   #45
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WOW!!! Did the tone of this thread take a HARD backhanded turn.
You are NOT kidding!
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