Charlatan Stripped Of Arkansas Derby??

[GMB@BP]

Should we start a thread for Steve Asmusen as well since he just got popped for a drug violation, a human heart medication no less.

They are all doing it, doesn't make it right, but holding Baffert to a different standard is a bit hypocritical and wonders if it is a bit agenda driven, especially since there are so many drug positives from top barns around the country.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by drib

Amen....I well remember Belmont Stakes Day, 2017. Baffert shipped in four horses for the undercard stakes. West Coast (8-5) won the Easy Goer; Abel Tasman (2-1) won the Acorn; American Anthem (9-5) won the Woody Stephens; and Mor Spirit (5-2) won the Met Mile. It was not just the victories; each of these horse ran insane races. Just looking at chart calls, one sees words like "surge", and "powerful", but no chart can really describe how these winners overcame pace, and traffic to crush. I am sure somewhere some trainer may have matched this 4-4 stakes winning day, but I doubt any trainer anywheret has ever gotten such efforts in one day.

I remember that, and I agree.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Should we start a thread for Steve Asmusen as well since he just got popped for a drug violation, a human heart medication no less.

They are all doing it, doesn't make it right, but holding Baffert to a different standard is a bit hypocritical and wonders if it is a bit agenda driven, especially since there are so many drug positives from top barns around the country.

They are not ALL doing it. Perhaps that's why Baffert dominates the stakes events. Most of the juice trainers are claiming trainers. When you give a talented horse the juice, you get Baffert results. Asmussen has certainly tried to match Baffert with doping at times but I really don't think that most of the trainers that train the top-class horses are doping their horses. Some of them may have been tempted but after one or two positives they stopped. I could be wrong, just my opinion.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by pandy

They are not ALL doing it. Perhaps that's why Baffert dominates the stakes events. Most of the juice trainers are claiming trainers. When you give a talented horse the juice, you get Baffert results. Asmussen has certainly tried to match Baffert with doping at times but I really don't think that most of the trainers that train the top-class horses are doping their horses. Some of them may have been tempted but after one or two positives they stopped. I could be wrong, just my opinion.

Steve Asmusen is an elite world class trainer, have you heard of Gun Runner?

all is in general of course, majority of top class trainers, is that better?

If you asked me a for a % I would say 70% of the top 100 trainers on the money list.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by pandy

They are not ALL doing it. Perhaps that's why Baffert dominates the stakes events. Most of the juice trainers are claiming trainers. When you give a talented horse the juice, you get Baffert results. Asmussen has certainly tried to match Baffert with doping at times but I really don't think that most of the trainers that train the top-class horses are doping their horses. Some of them may have been tempted but after one or two positives they stopped. I could be wrong, just my opinion.

You sure are the king of baseless accusations.

[AMPHAR]

Originally Posted by drib

Amen....I well remember Belmont Stakes Day, 2017. Baffert shipped in four horses for the undercard stakes. West Coast (8-5) won the Easy Goer; Abel Tasman (2-1) won the Acorn; American Anthem (9-5) won the Woody Stephens; and Mor Spirit (5-2) won the Met Mile. It was not just the victories; each of these horse ran insane races. Just looking at chart calls, one sees words like "surge", and "powerful", but no chart can really describe how these winners overcame pace, and traffic to crush. I am sure somewhere some trainer may have matched this 4-4 stakes winning day, but I doubt any trainer anywheret has ever gotten such efforts in one day.

That was an epic day for Baffert. Crazy dominant performances. I remember thinking he would dominate Breeders cup. He didn’t.

Agree to many way roller coaster ups and downs.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by AMPHAR

That was an epic day for Baffert. Crazy dominant performances. I remember thinking he would dominate Breeders cup. He didn’t.

Agree to many way roller coaster ups and downs.

the only one that ran above his established form was American Anthem.

Going into the BC I can definitely tell you the barn was less excited about their prospects.

[classhandicapper]

For me, the toughest part about dealing with Baffert is that his lightly raced horses often move up a lot. If you like someone else in the race, it's hard to take a strong stand against him because his horses will often move forward several lengths and beat you. At the same time, since everyone knows his horses are more eligible to move up, you can't get a price on them. If you are going speculate on improvement like that, you want to be rewarded.

[drib]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

the only one that ran above his established form was American Anthem.

Going into the BC I can definitely tell you the barn was less excited about their prospects.

Come on; it wasn't the victories, but, rather, how the horses ran....All like they were on rocket fuel. Never, before or after, seen 4 performances from same barn on same day anywhere, and these were all in high class stakes races. I think this quartet, together, was more impressive (if that's the word u want to use) than any individual performance by a single horse, maybe, in racing history (and I am not being over dramatic).

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by drib

Come on; it wasn't the victories, but, rather, how the horses ran....All like they were on rocket fuel. Never, before or after, seen 4 performances from same barn on same day anywhere, and these were all in high class stakes races. I think this quartet, together, was more impressive (if that's the word u want to use) than any individual performance by a single horse, maybe, in racing history (and I am not being over dramatic).

Really, West Coast winning a glorified alw race, Abel Tasman coming off here Ky Oaks race in her 3rd start of the year winning a so so Acorn where she beat some deep closer from Chad Brown.

Mor Spirit ran very well but he was doing absolutely stellar coming into the race, so much so I even jumped in to bet him, and normally I dont bet those connections.

I agree that AA ran his eyes out.

Look, Baffert aint on the level...most of the trainers at the top end are not in my opinion. In a lot of ways I guess I agree with you. He cheats with better horses against those that cheat with lesser horses, been happening for 100 years.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

2 baffert horses failed tests. Imagine my shock level.

The chances of 2 false negs happening for the same drug seem low. Unless this kind of thing happens all the time and we don’t hear about it.

How long does it stay in the system. Any chance he cheated and can get away with it because it left the system since the first test? I don’t know anything about drugs effect horses

How come humans don’t get a retest in pro sports (unless they do and I don’t know about it)

The reason it's called a split sample is because they when they take urine and or blood after a race. They draw enough specimen that should a positive be detected they have enough saved to send more off to the second lab. Which BTW is chosen and paid for by the trainer.

[dilanesp]

Re: they all do it.

I can tell you this much about doping. In every other sport where there was widespread doping, all the major players did it, because you had to. Once your competitors dope, you have to dope.

And you can certainly see that pattern with widespread Lasix use in horse racing, with the caveat that it is legal. It started out as something certain trainers used, and when the performance enhancing aspect was clear, the entire industry adopted it. Again, you have to. If you insist on being pure, owners, who want to win races, will shun you in favor of your competitors.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by pandy

Anyone with half a brain knew that Mark McGwire was juiced when he all of a sudden turned into Babe Ruth.

Mark McGwire hit a record 49 home runs as a rookie...

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Mark McGwire hit a record 49 home runs as a rookie...

That's true, but two things:

(1) it is entirely possible he was using from the start, and

(2) even if he wasn't, he then bulked up and hit 70....

[JustRalph]

I saw McGwire up close in his Mark vs Sammy season.

His forearms were so damn big .......it was all everybody was staring at.friggin tree trunks