Trump signs tariffs

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Dude, sorry, but you appear to be suffering or Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I still agree with everything you quoted from me above.

I've said from day one that tariffs are a bad idea, but the goal of the Trump tariffs was only to get people to the negotiating table because no one was going to give up an advantageous trade position out of the goodness of their heart. Only liberals believe in fairly tales like that.

He's getting them to the table. That's alone is a greater success than all the recent presidents before him that sold us out to Wall St and dim witted globalists.

I still think totally free trade can't work well because countries still have vastly different regulations, tax structures, labor laws, and labor costs. They erect barriers, manipulate currencies (the monetary system is fvcked up) etc... Therefore there will inevitably be huge transfers of jobs and wealth (as there has been for the last 30+ years). It's not until everyone is in a similar position that it can start working as the theory suggests. "Western" Europe in pretty much in the same position as the US. Free trade with most of "western" Europe should work reasonably well unless there are tariffs, barriers etc.. The problem is that it may still be another 50 years until many other places are in that position and we are still getting gutted in the meantime.

However, to the extent you can renegotiate, remove other country's tariffs and barriers, you are improving your position and winning the deal.

I never expected the US was going to undo 30+ years of being dumber than a rock in 6 months of negotiating. That wouldn't even be smart. Neither side could adjust quickly enough to the reversal. It would be too disruptive. However, we are clearly on the right track now. We are trying to get countries to remove their unfair tariffs, barriers, etc.. by threatening them with tariffs. And since we are currently in the "deficit" position, they have more to lose in our market than we do in theirs. We just have to stand strong and take the short term hits from their retaliation until their pain so exceeds our own, they have to come to the table because it makes sense for everyone. If we weaken because economic pinheads, liberals, and Trump derangement sufferers can't stand a little short term pain for long term gain, then we'll blow our best chance in several decades to get on a healthier track for the country in trade.

And this is exactly it.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I'm begging to know the thoughts of Elysian. Surely he has this all figured out.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

I'm begging to know the thoughts of Elysian. Surely he has this all figured out.

From the other thread.

I've already commented on this. Its either:

1) The Trump way of announcing a victory without actually accomplishing anything and moving on. Or...

2) It sure sounded like he agreed to work on the Obama Era trade deal TTiP which Europe has always been open to. NAFTA for Europe.

I like 2 because I like free trade. Hopefully that's the case. It will do nothing to the trade deficit though or a multitude of other complaints raised by the folks here.

If it is 2 I don't understand why any of this was necessary in the first place. Europe was already willing to discuss TTiP they had been for 5 years.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

From the other thread.

I've already commented on this. Its either:

1) The Trump way of announcing a victory without actually accomplishing anything and moving on. Or...

2) It sure sounded like he agreed to work on the Obama Era trade deal TTiP which Europe has always been open to. NAFTA for Europe.

I like 2 because I like free trade. Hopefully that's the case. It will do nothing to the trade deficit though or a multitude of other complaints raised by the folks here.

If it is 2 I don't understand why any of this was necessary in the first place. Europe was already willing to discuss TTiP they had been for 5 years.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I still think totally free trade can't work well because countries still have vastly different regulations, tax structures, labor laws, and labor costs. They erect barriers, manipulate currencies (the monetary system is fvcked up) etc... Therefore there will inevitably be huge transfers of jobs and wealth (as there has been for the last 30+ years). It's not until everyone is in a similar position that it can start working as the theory suggests. "Western" Europe is in pretty much the same position as the US. Free trade with most of "western" Europe should work reasonably well unless there are tariffs, barriers etc.. The problem is that it may still be another 50 years until many other places are in that position and we are still getting gutted in the meantime.

Here's one such barrier no one ever thinks about, but greatly hampers the 'even playing field'. In the EU, they have a regulation that drawings and manuals must include the native tongue of the country the goods are being sold into. Except of course if you are an EU country. Then the rule does not apply. So, as a USA company, I have to increase my costs by $20-50k to cover this expense, and thus making my proposal high priced. Ingenious really. They don't prevent me from trading or raise a tariff, but I'm essentially dead in the water with that hidden barrier. Many more barriers like that exist meant to keep us out.

[fast4522]

China plans tariffs on $60 billion of US products

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/03/new...ion/index.html

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by fast4522

China plans tariffs on $60 billion of US products

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/03/new...ion/index.html

I would have thought the Chinese would know more about trade than that. Probably just rattling Trump's cage, setting him up in preparation for a deal that he can claim is a YUGE win. Then back to business as usual.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I would have thought the Chinese would know more about trade than that. Probably just rattling Trump's cage, setting him up in preparation for a deal that he can claim is a YUGE win. Then back to business as usual.

Trump is facing political pressure. Might as well keep it ratcheted up for now.

Its not like Chinese need to worry about elections.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I would have thought the Chinese would know more about trade than that. Probably just rattling Trump's cage, setting him up in preparation for a deal that he can claim is a YUGE win. Then back to business as usual.

China specifically is a huge problem, just like Fentanyl. People like yourself with pure trade logic will never will never be open to the fact that we should have done something about this long ago. People are addicted to cheep junk that end up filling in our recycled junkyards and landfills. We as a nation owe China and other country's nothing, timing is good to introduce policy that has benefit in economics to our government. The benefit to our country's position is much greater than the benefit to consumers who die, killing our country should not be a benefit to consumers. Policy going forward will naturally be more balanced as policy itself is formed in a less crude manner.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by fast4522

China specifically is a huge problem, just like Fentanyl. People like yourself with pure trade logic will never will never be open to the fact that we should have done something about this long ago. People are addicted to cheep junk that end up filling in our recycled junkyards and landfills.

So you and Trump think we need more control over consumers to modify their behavior. This free trade thing is a bad idea because people do not know what is good for them, and they need their betters to move them in the right direction. No more cheap junk from Asia, just Buy American.

Got it.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Clocker

So you and Trump think we need more control over consumers to modify their behavior. This free trade thing is a bad idea because people do not know what is good for them, and they need their betters to move them in the right direction. No more cheap junk from Asia, just Buy American.

Got it.

No not at all, what I am saying is policy is in flux and absolutely no experts know their ass from their elbow when it comes to bringing others to the table to getting a better deal for us all in these United States of America. Everybody thus far are proven rank amateurs for doing nothing the last 30 years or more.
You and others prefer simple, complex scares your crowd. If something needs to be done your answer is not today, but today the iron is hot and comparatively speaking positions around the world are very weak compared to ours. I could give a rats ass who gets crushed because of our actions, the important part is no one can have a better hand than the United States this time around.

[fast4522]

US unveils next round of Chinese imports to face tariffs

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/polit...ist/index.html

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by fast4522

US unveils next round of Chinese imports to face tariffs

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/polit...ist/index.html

And more businesses feeling the pain...

WSJ: ‘We Are at the Limit’: Trump’s Tariffs Turn Small Businesses Upside Down

TRUMP TARIFFS' IMPACT: SOUTH CAROLINA COUNTY TO LOSE JOBS AFTER TV MAKER ANNOUNCES PLANT CLOSURE

[fast4522]

China slaps 25% tariffs on $16 billion worth of US goods

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/chin...including.html

[tucker6]

China is losing this fight and they know it.