why choosePTC

[rokitman]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

Ian

On a scale of 1-10 what are the chances of PTC being partners with these tracks in 2009??


NYRA
Philly
Fair Grounds
Calder
Gulfstream

I'll take a crack at that because I'm sure to be right on my three zero's.

O
4
0
0
1

[Charlie D]

I'm sat here watching race replays on tv when i could probably be betting Calder if i was allowed


Brilliant business model these guys have innit


Cheers

Frustrated and fed up US racing fan

[trying2win]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

On a scale of 1-10 what are the chances of PTC being partners with these tracks in 2009??


NYRA
Philly
Fair Grounds
Calder
Gulfstream

It's kind of interesting that BET AMERICA.COM and PTC both:

1. Operate in conjunction with the NORTH DAKOTA HORSE PARK.

2.They both offer rebates, but BET AMERICA only offers a small 3 % rebate on selected minor tracks, while PTC pays rebates on all the tracks they cover, and in the great majority of cases, higher than BET AMERICA.

3. Here's some strange things...While studying a few tracks being offered by these two ADWS...BET AMERICA is presently offering wagering on AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS (no rebate on either one), (PTC doesn't carry these tracks), but BET AMERICA offers no wagering on TAMPA BAY or TURF PARADISE (while PTC does).

--Here's my theory....NYRA and TRACKNET will allow some ADWS to carry a few of their tracks, if they promise not to offer rebates. If that is true, it might raise the possibility that PTC could get permission to offer AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS as well under the same conditions. If so, two questions remain:

1. Would PTC consider this exception to the 'rebates on every track offered' policy, if they could get AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS added to their menu?

2. Also, would their customers mind if a 'no rebate' policy for AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS, had to be observed by PTC?

T2W

[boomman]

trying2win wrote:1. Would PTC consider this exception to the 'rebates on every track offered' policy, if they could get AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS added to their menu?

2. Also, would their customers mind if a 'no rebate' policy for AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS, had to be observed by PTC?



Jim:
1. IMHO it would be a HUGE mistake for PTC to allow anyone to restrict them from paying cash rewards to players. That is the business model they have always followed and if tracks that don't send them the signal require that ridiculous demand, then they should continue to not sign a contract with them (which to their credit they have steadfastly refused to do) and we as players should ignore those tracks as well. Doing business with PTC INCREASES the track's handle, yet they act like they're doing everyone some BIG favor by sending it to them.

2. Yeah I would mind! I'M NOT BETTING A DOLLAR on those tracks, and if you want the industry to improve, please follow my lead and only play the tracks that "get it" and have 100% open access!


Boomer

[Bobzilla]

I agree with Boomer on principle. I've always been curious about the NYRA/PTC possibility as this arrangement would be the best Christmas gift I could have ever hoped for. Somehow I have a feeling a business deal between NYRA and PTC would be complicated. NYRA has their own NYRA Rewards program which is restricted to NY and CT (phone only in CT) residents. The cash back schedule, though better than nothing, probably pales in comparison to what customers of PTC might typically expect. Might there be an issue if a resident of another PTC state was getting a percentage rebate on NY action that is considerably more generous than what NYRA currently offers NY and CT residents? I would also think NYRA might not wish to lose NY and CT NYRA Rewards customers to PTC, perhaps there would be that restriction as well. The entire arrangement might be unpalatable to PTC on the basis of fair and equal treatment to their customers. I'm sure talks are ongoing, or at least off and on, and that's probably why there is so little information available about a NYRA/PTC deal.

[rrbauer]

Racing lost its monopoly, but not its monopoly-mentality. I believe that Magna/CDI/TrackNet are guilty of restraint of trade in interstate commerce but that nobody is interested in tying up the issue in the courts for the years that it would take to work through the judicial system.

I believe that the coming year for horse racing will be so bad that it will curl Ed Harris' hair. And, when I get back from my Tampa trip, I plan to sit back and watch it happen. No bailout from my money!

[jimmy m]

How about ptc for the small player like me.Is it worth signing up.I have xpressbet.I play about 100 a day.It would be more if not for the wife.Jimmy

[DeanT]

Hey Jimmy,

You can churn as a small player too.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation..../07/churn.html

[Jeff P]

I'd like to emphasize something from an earlier post I made in this thread:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...3&postcount=24

One of the reasons I believe players everywhere should be lining up in support of PTC is that they offer rebates to players betting less than $1 million a year.

I would absolutely hate to see PTC legitimize TrackNet's $1 million floor by enforcing it. That would make them just another ADW.

By offering rebates to the customer betting less than a $1 million a year I believe PTC can be a catalyst for change. They have the chance right now to make the industry do a complete 180 in terms of how the player is treated. They and they alone have the ability to grow handle for those tracks willing to compete for your (as in you the small player) business!

Sam Walton once said: "There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else."

If enough players sign up for PTC accounts and start giving their personal handle to tracks that "get it" - tracks like ALB, CNL, CTX, DEL, DED, ELP, EMD, FLX, HAW, HOU, KEE, MTH, LAD, MNR, SUF, SUN, TAM, TUP, YAV, ZIA, and the Breeder's Cup (I'm sure I've left a few out) - who've made their signals available to PTC...

If enough players do that then TrackNet (who obviously doesn't get it) will ultimately have to drop its ridiculous $1 million rebate floor if they want to compete.

Guys, the battle lines were clearly drawn by TrackNet a long time ago.

Do you want lowered takeout through rebates? Do you want to change the game? Then show the industry what you want by supporting PTC!!!


-jp

.

[NoCal Boy]

I have to disagree with your macro opinion about 2009 for the racing industry. While I believe there will be a continuing decline in on track attendance and on track handle numbers, I expect 2009 to be a better year than 2008 for certain parts of the racing industry. Open access to the major national ADWs is basically here. I expect the Florida signal deals with Youbet and likely TVG to be announced later this week. Oaklawn is next up shortly thereafter. CA has open access now. I highly doubt the Kentucky Derby and Preakness will be restricted this year given the signal deals being cut now. I suspect the Breeders Cup will be better received in 2009 in terms of handle now that Pro Ride seems to be holding up and there will be plenty of information about it.

The key for many of these tracks is access to wagering outlets and field sizes. The former seems to be coming around with access to the major ADWs being assured to virtually all tracks. The latter is a work in process, but as purses get supplemented with a little better fee structure for purses, my guess is field sizes will also start to increase at the major tracks.

Hopefully PTC will obtain Tracknet content. Hopefully PTC will get into CA. Hopefully PTC will get NYRA. Unfortunately, although PTC has been able to obtain TVG content during 2008, TVG is about to be sold in Q1 of 2009 and its exclusivities are basically done after Turfway ends in March. If the purchaser is CDI, then will PTC even get what little content is available through TVG? Hopefully the answer is a resounding Yes, but CDI is a tough nut to crack.

Magna will get reorganized in some fashion during 2009. TVG will be sold. Youbet might go private. CDI will be the home of the Kentucky Derby and we will see from there. How PTC fits in all of this is open to question if CDI is the dominant player controlling content. However, I do believe Twinspires and Youbet (and more than likely whomever is the acquiror of TVG) will do very well in 2009 as the industry takes a noticeable shift to online and mobile wagering. Xpressbet is a crapshoot as I doubt many large players will want to drive much handle through a reorganized Magna subsidiary, regardless of player trust accounts.

Finally, I see little to no appetite for any reductions in takeout. Justified or not, it will not happen.

Merry Christmas

Originally Posted by rrbauer

Racing lost its monopoly, but not its monopoly-mentality. I believe that Magna/CDI/TrackNet are guilty of restraint of trade in interstate commerce but that nobody is interested in tying up the issue in the courts for the years that it would take to work through the judicial system.

I believe that the coming year for horse racing will be so bad that it will curl Ed Harris' hair. And, when I get back from my Tampa trip, I plan to sit back and watch it happen. No bailout from my money!

[highnote]

Originally Posted by NoCal Boy

Finally, I see little to no appetite for any reductions in takeout. Justified or not, it will not happen.

What honest justifications are there for not lowering takeouts?

[gopony]

Originally Posted by trying2win

I
1. Would PTC consider this exception to the 'rebates on every track offered' policy, if they could get AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS added to their menu?

2. Also, would their customers mind if a 'no rebate' policy for AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS, had to be observed by PTC?

T2W

I hope they don't. The only track I currently bet using my other account is FG. But I concentrate more heavily on tracks which are covered by PTC. because I get rebates through PTC. I have been betting FG for a the last season and this season and have done well there, but eventually as I acclimate to the other tracks offered at PTC I'll gradually spend less time and money at FG.
So why do I hope that PTC doesn't give in? Because if I vote with my money then PTC gets more of my churn as does the tracks they have. If FG eventually gives in then I can have a rebate there also.

I really believe that any quasi serious bettor ( someone who bets more than 20,000) per year should get some rebate. I don't know what the low end is at PTC, but I know I gave them the figure for a year not excluding FG, But I know my rate is moving 25% higher than what I told them it would be and in part that is due to rebates. My bad days aren't as bad and my good days are better. Although on good days I don't check the rebate column as much as I do on bad days. It helps.

[Sailwolf]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

There is no withholding on tickets for non-US residents. For U.S. residents all pertinent IRS withholding rules apply, unfortunately.

This action is somewhat new.

[startngate]

Originally Posted by trying2win

1. Would PTC consider this exception to the 'rebates on every track offered' policy, if they could get AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS added to their menu?

2. Also, would their customers mind if a 'no rebate' policy for AQUEDUCT and FAIR GROUNDS, had to be observed by PTC?

I certainly won't speak for Ian, but I suspect PTC would take every signal it can get its hands on, as long as the host fee rate makes it economically viable. They might not get as much action as they would if they could rebate, but I see no reason not to take the signal on that basis alone.

The higher the host fee, the lower the rebate though. I suspect PTC sets a retainage percentage floor and rebates the rest back to the players, less the host fees (and anything extra they have to pay TVG, or TrackNet if they have access).

Here's hoping they get TrackNet and NYRA to budge in 2009 ...

[Canadian]

I was wondering. Why can I not bet .20 supers at certain racetracks that offer them on PTC (Western Fair for example).