Keeneland post wrong order of finish

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Didn't everyone ultimately get paid?

Seems like an embarrassing situation, not an abysmal one.

The way Keeneland worded their statement leads me to think everyone did not get paid. Only the people who cashed out before everything was "repriced" managed getting paid. I suspect there will be people who had the wrong combination who will not be paid.

When multiple people are charged with a responsibility, or job, to perform an essential function 10 times in a five hour period...and don't do it properly...I don't think abysmal is too strong a word.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

I suspect there will be people who had the wrong combination who will not be paid.

But they shouldn't have gotten paid anyway...so anyone who had the wrong combo and got paid, received a gift.

The people who really got screwed were those who weren't paying attention and threw their ACTUAL winning tickets away...

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

I suspect there will be people who had the wrong combination who will not be paid.

Top 3 reactions:

3) Yep; they're called LOSERS

2) You didn't have to consult Watson on that one did you?

1) They should have hired a safe cracker instead...

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

But they shouldn't have gotten paid anyway...so anyone who had the wrong combo and got paid, received a gift.

The people who really got screwed were those who weren't paying attention and threw their ACTUAL winning tickets away...

Correct. I am not disputing that.

I don't know if there will be a situation with ADW players having any money taken from their accounts that was incorrectly paid to them. I understand they shouldn't have been paid on a wrong placing...but these people know there were people who were paid.

It is my home track...but I stand by what I said about the track not handling it's business.

Just my take.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Top 3 reactions:

3) Yep; they're called LOSERS

2) You didn't have to consult Watson on that one did you?

1) They should have hired a safe cracker instead...

Did I say something that offended you?

[davew]

I watched the replay and the correct order was shown as unofficial and then official. When/where was the incorrect order/prices?

Did they show 3 9 8 10 and then post prices as 3 8 9 10?

[green80]

I don't know the law in Kentucky but state law in Louisiana says any result declared official must be paid out. When you get into changing official results you can open up a whole new can of worms. I have seen it here where the track paid on the incorrect result and the corrected result to stay legal.

[Tom]

If you are sitting next to a guy who cashed the wrong ticket but didn't, it is abysmal to you.

The track should have paid both and chalked it up to education.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by Tom

If you are sitting next to a guy who cashed the wrong ticket but didn't, it is abysmal to you.

The track should have paid both and chalked it up to education.

They did. At least my 'winning' PL ticket on the is still in my ADW account this morning.

While as egregious of a mistake as this was for KEE, I'm thinking it actually could have been worse. This was a big race payout with regards to P5, P4, and P3 payouts if they had posted and paid the wrong winner. The P4 payout was $3107.75 and the P5 payout was $15,630.55 as it was.

[foregoforever]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Incidents like this almost invariably result from a mistake by the placing judge tasked with sending the numbers from a computer at hand out to the tote board and thus into the system. A mistake that the other placing judges are paid to catch and the stewards should certainly catch.

From Keeneland's statement:

Officials have determined the error in today's fifth race was due to United Tote operator error.

Does this ring true, based on your experience? Is it really a tote operator's job to punch in the numbers? And if so, how is he/she supervised? How can Keeneland and the stewards be blameless?

[westernmassbob]

Originally Posted by the little guy

One thing it isn't, is a "glitch in the system." Somebody screwed up. Maybe more than one somebody.

Human error, glitch in the system whatever happened happened. For people to chastise what happened and want people fired is ridiculous. They corrected the error and paid the price. Keeneland is a premier racing product and it’s leadership is bar none in the industry. They make one huge error and their reputation is diminished to zero ? I think not.

[wisconsin]

My AWD paid me for the wrong Tri, but has yet to correct or pay me for the "correct" tri.

[Tom]

I worked 45 years in the Quality field, and operator error is NEVER an acceptable cause. You have management errors. Management set up a system where an operator was counted on.

The operator is not the one who should be fired.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by foregoforever

From Keeneland's statement:



Does this ring true, based on your experience? Is it really a tote operator's job to punch in the numbers? And if so, how is he/she supervised? How can Keeneland and the stewards be blameless?

First a disclaimer: The system has changed and installed more fail-safes since I was a placing judge back when T-Rex walked the planet. But Mnr also uses United Tote, and the procedure entails first the placing judges posting numbers to the tote board, after which the stewards review those numbers and call a designated tote person who then types the numbers into the tote system. Should the United Tote employee for some reason change those numbers, the system in turn logs that change which he then (virtually) signs off on.

Apparently, according to Keeneland's statement, the tote company committed a transpositional error. Still, knowing who caught the mistake, and when, would also be informative.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Incidents like this almost invariably result from a mistake by the placing judge tasked with sending the numbers from a computer at hand out to the tote board and thus into the system. A mistake that the other placing judges are paid to catch and the stewards should certainly catch.

I harp a lot at my crew to put THREE sets of eyes.on the splash-down and then make sure that at least one of them double checks the order of finish typed into that computer monitor before they are sent into the system.

Given the requisite double and triple checks practiced by an attentive placing crew and the virtual impossibility of human error if universally proper procedures are followed, all three judges traditionally share blame when errors like this occur.

Reminds me of a Japanese technique that lowered train accidents / costly mistakes... all they did was have the conductor say out loud what he was doing.


So, the conductor would say out loud...... DOORS OPEN - to let passengers off. CLOSING DOORS... ect... this verbal signal improved accidents by a drastic amount.


edit: I believe it was in the book atomic habits