Timeform Ratings

[jagr]

Does anyone have an opinion on the reliability of Timeform ratings when making a comparison to Beyer ratings in past performances or how they are determined?

Jagr

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Timeform Beyer
140 124
135 120
130 116
125 112
120 108
115 104
110 100
105 96
100 92
95 88
90 84
85 80

If you get a paper copy of DRF, sometimes they have a chart where they give conversions for varios age groups....I'll see if I have it someplace.

This chart has worked for me. Not sure where I got it...maybe CJ???
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Last edited by Tom : Today at 01:43 AM."

[Pgh. Gere]

What kenwood offers is a good rule of thumb, ie deduct about 14pts from the timeform rating for a comparison with the Beyer figure.

The timeform rating in the form is a handicap rating or collateral form rating. Meaning who beat whom and by how much. The rating is an expression in pounds as to how good the horse is. The top horses usually receive ratings in the 130s' . The DRF has a guide to the ratings, like 100-105 is listed horses, 110-115 is Grade 3 etc. They also factor in weight for age in determining the ratings. The timeform ratings are similar to how a Racing Secretary would assign weights for a handicap race, whereas a Beyer is measuring how fast the horse ran and how fast or slow the surface was that day. The point being, the numbers arent really directly comparable.

Hope this helps.

Agreed, you should really compare the Timeform "Speed" Ratings with Beyer and not the Timeform collateral ratings based on weight carried and distance won/ beaten by.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by robert99

Agreed, you should really compare the Timeform "Speed" Ratings with Beyer and not the Timeform collateral ratings based on weight carried and distance won/ beaten by.

Where can you get the Timeform "speed ratings" for major stakes races.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Where can you get the Timeform "speed ratings" for major stakes races.

ch,

http://www.timeform.com/display_arti...e=Products.asp

and will be in computer timeform section. These are really past time performances not predicted ones.

[Pgh. Gere]

My understanding is that the timeform "timefigures" are similar to Thoro-graph, in that they measure wind, weight, widths etc., Again, timeform factors in weight for age whereas T-graph is just the raw figure they asign.

[Cratos]

Comparing the BSFs to the Timeform Ratings is like comparing apples and oranges. First and foremost BSFs are speed based with variant adjustments. Timeform Ratings are weight and pace based. Adding 12-14 points to the BSF to get a Timeform Rating is merely a convenient calculation without merit.

Time Rratings were invented by the late Phil Bull (a mathematician), founder of Timeform, in the 1940s. He was joined by Dick Whitford who developed collateral from ratings.

Using Phil Bull’s methodology I have put together a chart on calculating an estimate of the Timeform Ratings on distances run in North America from 6 furlongs to 1 ½ miles. Some representative metrics are:

• About 1.102 Lbs = 1 length @ 1.491 miles (7872.48 feet or 2400 meters)
• About 1.205 Lbs = 1 length @ .994 miles (5248.32. feet or 1600 meters)
• About 3.307 Lbs = 1 length @ 746 miles (3938.88 feet or 1200 meters)

What is clear about the Timeform Rratings are that they are non-linear and the ratings curve is inversely downward sloping with respect to distance and weight.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Cratos

Comparing the BSFs to the Timeform Ratings is like comparing apples and oranges.

A lot of people seem to say this, and yet it still works out very good for me. This is especially true when you adjust for improvement when 1st Lasix is added.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

A lot of people seem to say this, and yet it still works out very good for me. This is especially true when you adjust for improvement when 1st Lasix is added.

Yes, but it doesn't SOUND intelligent.....and isn't that REALLY what matters?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

A lot of people seem to say this, and yet it still works out very good for me. This is especially true when you adjust for improvement when 1st Lasix is added.

It doesn't surprise me they work very well.

I am 100% certain I could provide ratings that were very comparable to Beyer figures but based on Class and a subjective analysis of the strength of field relative to average. There are lot of ways to get to very similar answers at long as the practitioner is competent. The Timeform guys seem to do a good job.

[andicap]

Originally Posted by cj

A lot of people seem to say this, and yet it still works out very good for me. This is especially true when you adjust for improvement when 1st Lasix is added.

Craig,
Do you mean the Timeform ratings printed in the DRF or the "speed" Timeform ratings online?

[Cratos]

CJ,

I am very happy that you can win with BSF-Timeform Conversions, but I just don't understand the math in converting the two metrics

[cj]

Originally Posted by andicap

Craig,
Do you mean the Timeform ratings printed in the DRF or the "speed" Timeform ratings online?

DRF.

[Tom]

Ditto that. I've used them for a long time, and then CJ came along and made an even better conversion.
This has wager value because the teeming masses don't use them like this.