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12-21-2016, 02:00 PM
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#151
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Except, or course, scratch the horse.
I really don't need to listen the interview. I already know what he said happened because it is all in the Privman article, which Ellis mostly penned.
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I just think there are far worse trainers than Ellis, doing far worse things
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12-21-2016, 02:03 PM
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#152
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Im listening now, they are talking about old school training, hay and oats and they use to give horses arsenic to increase appetite I never heard that before
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12-21-2016, 02:03 PM
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#153
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
I have to admit I have no idea what this "failure to thrive" thing is. Can I go to my doctor and get some drugs because I'm sure after a tennis match and don't feel like doing laundry that day? I'm just not thriving around the house after exercise. Maybe I need some steroids.  |
NSAIDS will do the trick.
Lots of TV commercials these days about "Low T." At some point your doc may recommend hormone replacement.
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12-21-2016, 02:06 PM
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#154
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regular user
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 37,506
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Winstrol And Stanozolol are the same thing stabanol
Ellis seems to believe otherwise , according to the interview
__________________
donut believe the hype...
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12-21-2016, 02:07 PM
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#155
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upthecreek
I just think there are far worse trainers than Ellis, doing far worse things
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I don't doubt that either. But if we allow it at the top of the game, what hope do we have at the lower ends? I despise training by chemistry and this whole thing reeks of it to me whether Ellis is a good guy or not.
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12-21-2016, 02:08 PM
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#156
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upthecreek
EDITED by CJ:
Vic is a member here with many posts. If he wants to post here he is free to do so. No posting by proxy.
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Sorry didnt know we werent allowed to quote Twitter
Last edited by upthecreek; 12-21-2016 at 02:10 PM.
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12-21-2016, 02:09 PM
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#157
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
Obviously Masochistic wasn't halfway to skin and bones. If I read the Ellis explanation correctly, Masochistic is a small horse who had a tendency to not eat post race. If true, the treatment with Stanozolol was meant to keep the horse from losing muscle mass because he wouldn't eat normally. In my experience, stanozolol is commonly used post surgery (especially gelding) as an aid in recovery. No doubt, stanozolol may prevent loss of muscle mass post race or speeds recovery from racing stress, but I don't believe it should be used willy nilly. I can't say this definitively, but I don't think stanozolol is used widely post race. The vets I've talked to have said there are limited cases in which its use is appropriate.
The issue is that you have a horse like Masochistic that you want to keep on the track and if that means using stanozolol, well, it's legal. I'm not saying it's a good thing. Just a legal thing.
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Even if all this is true, that is terrible for horse racing. Of course we have no idea if any of it is true or just an excuse to get an edge. But either way it should be gone and I hope this is the catalyst for that change.
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12-21-2016, 02:09 PM
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#158
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upthecreek
Rich Perloff yesterday to an emailer
"Legal substance, end of Discussion"
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Co-worker.
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12-21-2016, 02:10 PM
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#159
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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We need to do a better job in the future with out-of-competition testing that indicates a high probability of a failed race day test.
As far as the BIG PED problem?
Governing sports bodies generally have two fronts; Rules, and Propaganda.
As fans, bettors, purists, etc... most of us would prefer that the Rules be such that detectable PEDs were removed from the game.
Is that possible??
Horse racing is a unique situation with elements such as geldings. I don't have any special veterinarian knowledge, of how to answer the 'geldings need steroids' claim, issue.
You are also going to have a strong general push back from trainers across the board, if PEDs like Stanozolol were to be ruled-out.
Racing does a decent job on the Propaganda front.
While sports like the NFL or NBA tell you that they are strictly tested, and then headline former MVPs over 30 coming off of knee surgery looking like body builders, or squeezing out one more MVP/Prime season in the midst of advertising/shoe/endorsement battles that involve a billion dollars...
Horse Racing tells you they are strictly tested, while at the same time calling the PEDs "legal, therapeutic medicine".
Either way, if you look too long, you are left looking at a steaming pile of horseshit.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 12-21-2016 at 02:11 PM.
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12-21-2016, 02:10 PM
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#160
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upthecreek
Sorry didnt know we werent allowed to qoute Twitter
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No big deal there, you obviously can, but not in Vic's case. I think that is fair since he can and does post here. PA can correct me if wrong.
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12-21-2016, 02:12 PM
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#161
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
NSAIDS will do the trick.
Lots of TV commercials these days about "Low T." At some point your doc may recommend hormone replacement.
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Nice try but I don't have low T.
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12-21-2016, 02:24 PM
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#162
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Nice try but I don't have low T.
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Statistics say you will!
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12-21-2016, 02:42 PM
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#163
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
Statistics say you will!
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Undoubtedly
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12-21-2016, 02:50 PM
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#164
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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No need for drugs
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
NSAIDS will do the trick.
Lots of TV commercials these days about "Low T." At some point your doc may recommend hormone replacement.
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http://www.healthline.com/health/low...tural-boosters
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12-21-2016, 03:09 PM
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#165
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,539
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
No big deal there, you obviously can, but not in Vic's case. I think that is fair since he can and does post here. PA can correct me if wrong.
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He asked me to make it so he can't post here anymore...I guess he lacked the self control to just stop on his own...
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