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Old 09-07-2023, 08:50 PM   #196
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Do you work for NYRA?
Pretty sure he already said he does not
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Old 09-07-2023, 10:47 PM   #197
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Pretty sure he already said he does not
Correct, I do not now (nor have I ever) worked for NYRA. This is the second time that my support of NYRA has been transformed into a "you must be biased, you must work for them" question.

Instead, let me ask a serious question.

What does anyone think happens to thoroughbred racing if NYRA crumbles? Ignore the franchise for a moment and think, really think, what happens if NYRA folds?

Do you think that racing on Long Island (Nassau/Queens) survives? What organizations that regularly take-over and subsequently close tracks will try to grab Belmont/Aqueduct for the land value alone? Imagine that mess.

But more important to this thread, how does Saratoga survive as a 40-day per year enterprise without NYRA? What do you do to create a circuit that supports that Saratoga ecosystem without NYRA? I have no idea and my strong guess is that no one else does either.

As a result, constantly deriding NYRA is counter-productive if you love the game, particularly in New York. You can criticize elements, sure, and really push for improvements, but to relentlessly hammer the backbone organization of the entire game as a keyboard warrior makes no sense at all.
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Old 09-08-2023, 09:05 AM   #198
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Some here have accused me of being anti NYRA. My position is that I'm opposed to all businesses that extract subsidies from their public unless they provide a function to all citizens subsidizing that operation. To me, this doesn't seem like a complex ideal.
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Old 09-08-2023, 12:24 PM   #199
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NYRA really needs to add a new stakes race to it's schedule.

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Old 09-08-2023, 04:45 PM   #200
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Some here have accused me of being anti NYRA. My position is that I'm opposed to all businesses that extract subsidies from their public unless they provide a function to all citizens subsidizing that operation. To me, this doesn't seem like a complex ideal.
Then you are good with NYRA as we do not get subsidies. We are, however, an engine for creating significant positive economic impacts for NY State.
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Old 09-08-2023, 04:57 PM   #201
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... What does anyone think happens to thoroughbred racing if NYRA crumbles? Ignore the franchise for a moment and think, really think, what happens if NYRA folds? ...
Maggie and Acacia would land on their feet well. They're knowledgeable and engaging. Richie could (and should) open a little Italian eatery!

As for the rest? Perhaps they could sit around a bar and mumble to each other -- you'd have a hard time distinguishing that from their current televised banter -- or break out that stored tie-dyed T-shirt from 1982 and twirl around their living room to "Sugar Magnolia" or "China Cat Sunflower" ...
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Old 09-08-2023, 05:15 PM   #202
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Maggie and Acacia would land on their feet well. They're knowledgeable and engaging. Richie could (and should) open a little Italian eatery!

As for the rest? Perhaps they could sit around a bar and mumble to each other -- you'd have a hard time distinguishing that from their current televised banter -- or break out that stored tie-dyed T-shirt from 1982 and twirl around their living room to "Sugar Magnolia" or "China Cat Sunflower" ...
Jealousy is a terrible thing.
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Old 09-08-2023, 08:34 PM   #203
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Certainly adds nothing to the discussion, whatever it is or was.
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Old 09-08-2023, 08:39 PM   #204
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Then you are good with NYRA as we do not get subsidies. We are, however, an engine for creating significant positive economic impacts for NY State.
You keep insisting you do not speak for NYRA. That you are not an NYRA executive. Seems like you are trying to have it both ways.
I like you as an ambassador for racing. I think you have a lot to offer. I do not think you have the financial background to know what is or is not a subsidy. And it isn't important that you know because you are good at other things.
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Old 09-09-2023, 10:28 AM   #205
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Itís a shame Ritchie canít continue doing the show AND open an Italian restaurant. Based on the pictures he posts on Twitter, Iíd eat there.
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Old 09-09-2023, 01:05 PM   #206
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You keep insisting you do not speak for NYRA. That you are not an NYRA executive. Seems like you are trying to have it both ways.
I like you as an ambassador for racing. I think you have a lot to offer. I do not think you have the financial background to know what is or is not a subsidy. And it isn't important that you know because you are good at other things.
Enlighten us.

What specific subsidies is NYRA getting?
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Old 09-09-2023, 01:08 PM   #207
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It was a rough meet weather-wise and we all know the other issues, but NYRA gives us (on their YouTube/FOX show) the coverage that we have been requesting forever. It's sad that anyone who loves racing wants them to fail. I came up watching racing sitting in a grandstand at Parx with 5 people, so to see a racetrack still drawing 20 or 30 thousand is pretty cool. We can all be critical and things can always be improved but let's appreciate the good things too.
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Old 09-09-2023, 01:36 PM   #208
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subsidies

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Enlighten us.

What specific subsidies is NYRA getting?
Perhaps what he means by subsidies is that NYRA operates racing, but in effect doesn't own anything, and the fact that the State operates racing at all, at a cost, is a subsidy of sorts

NYRA went bankrupt in 2006 due to "it's poor financial condition," and two years later was bailed out and given the license to run racing in the state but had it's physical assets taken away and was given "a financial assistance package" that enable it to emerge from bankruptcy into the not for profit it is now (that is sort of a subsidy that kept the train running)

https://web.osc.state.ny.us/audits/a...3010/09s89.htm

Some more detail here: https://www.espn.com/horse-racing/news/story?id=2647755

This all happened while casinos were being established in the State, which bidding was badly handled for years if we recall, and NYRA was left out of that in the end

NY State owns the tracks and the land now, and with Aqueduct's land worth an estimated $1B, and Belmont's land is also worth a lot we can be certain, and the value of Saratoga is also in the hands of the State, the fact that the State supports racing is something of a subsidy

If you were looking strictly at dollars and cents like one of those vulture PE funds, you'd liquidate Belmont and Aqueduct and its assets, run Saratoga as much as you could, and maybe buy the old Parr Meadows or some land in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY, and run racing the rest of the year, or give that franchise to Finger Lakes - they are already planning on running the Belmont at Saratoga of course, and if that is successful why ever bring it back downstate?

And so running racing in NY State the way it has been is arguably a subsidy

Hardly anybody ever goes to downstate racing anymore, and it is quickly being forgotten - will it make a comeback after the destruction of Aqueduct is complete and the new Belmont finally emerges 2-3 years from now?

will there be any promotion?

that's arguably a big gamble, and if it fails, it would be something of a subsidy

if it were me, I'd use that 450m loan to fix the Saratoga surfaces - in HK they just had record rains, and will run on the turf because they actually have drainage systems that work, surely NYRA and the State can do better

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Old 09-09-2023, 03:04 PM   #209
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Well it's not you.
And I'll argue it's not a subsidy.
And the "loan"is an investment.
NYRA provi des jobs and tax revenue streams.
If anything, NYRA subdidizes the state.
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Old 09-09-2023, 06:11 PM   #210
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IMO Finger Lakes is under utilized.

IMO, the very long term future of racing is a dozen or so short boutique meets around the country in vacation destinations. Very rich breeders and owners will dominate a much smaller but economically viable industry. Gambling and even purses will be secondary to breeding, buying and selling horses.

The Finger Lakes region is a beautiful area that could become a bigger vacation destination over time. It already has a small track and casino. I don't think it will happen, but it could.

What I'm talking about isn't going to happen in the next 10 or even 20 years. I might not even live to see it, but imo 30 years from now the surviving sport is going to look at lot different than the failing business model we have now. It has to or it will be gone. The costs are too high relative to the multitude of other gambling options.
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