Ian step in, heres your chance

[ponypro]

Heres your chance, the horseman want their own ADW. You already are the players choice and you are up and running. I would meet with these guys asap. Ken Ramsey sounds pretty steamed.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45208.htm












Will Rogers Never met Bob Evans

[witchdoctor]

Sounds like a winner to me.

[DeanT]

I hope that doesnt happen. They'd probably want 10%, Ian would keep his razor thin margin, and his customers would get their rebates cut in more than half.

Customer pays more of the freight, and bets less, all in a game that is growing smaller year after year. Great strategy THG!

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by ponypro

Heres your chance, the horseman want their own ADW. You already are the players choice and you are up and running. I would meet with these guys asap. Ken Ramsey sounds pretty steamed.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45208.htm


Will Rogers Never met Bob Evans

From the article:

... Also speaking from the crowd, McPeek offered that a non-profit ADW could be established to benefit horsemen, and that some of those in attendance, such as owner Jack Wolf, who has a background as a hedge fund manager, could help make it happen.

They must read this board.

“If we own half the signal, then maybe we need to do something about it,” McPeek said.

Casner said TOBA at one time considered establishing an ADW platform, but said the start-up costs made that prospect prohibitive.

“And it would take a period of time to make that work,” he said. “What you have available (in negotiating) is something more powerful that starting our own ADW. We have said yes, this is the way to make change. The horsemen have the power. This will make it happen a heck of lot quicker that starting our own ADW.” ...

I can just see the lawyers salivating if McPeek's proposal gains any traction.

In the meantime, horseplayers should contemplate becoming moth breeders because the sound of wallets closing is about to become deafening.

[DJofSD]

Rick Hiles, president of the Kentucky Horsemen’s Benevolent & Protective Association, which organized the affair, painted a picture of the Churchill Downs mindset, saying the track wants to “destroy the horsemen” with actions such as the recently announced 20% purse cut.

“They say, ‘we will cut purses until they bleed to death; they will give up’,” Hiles said. “They are saying that horsemen have no rights. They should take what we give them. Be quiet and be happy.”

How about we hear the position of CHDN from CHDN instead of a biased participant?

Speaking from the audience, Ramsey brought a thunderous round of applause when he suggested he and other horse owners could stage a boycott of their own by not entering horses at Churchill.

Go ahead, cut off you're own noses to spite your face.

Also speaking from the crowd, McPeek offered that a non-profit ADW could be established to benefit horsemen, and that some of those in attendance, such as owner Jack Wolf, who has a background as a hedge fund manager, could help make it happen.

“If we own half the signal, then maybe we need to do something about it,” McPeek said.

Casner said TOBA at one time considered establishing an ADW platform, but said the start-up costs made that prospect prohibitive.

“And it would take a period of time to make that work,” he said. “What you have available (in negotiating) is something more powerful that starting our own ADW. We have said yes, this is the way to make change. The horsemen have the power. This will make it happen a heck of lot quicker that starting our own ADW.”

If things keep going the way they are now the only customers the horsemen's ADW will have are other horsemen.

I will not patronize such an ADW. The intent and focus would not be on servicing the needs of the customer. It would be for horsemen, by horsemen, and the decissions would be biased in a way that would not benefit any one but themselves.

[ceejay]

“We as owners control our own destiny,” said Ramsey. “No one tells me what to do with my horses. We decide when and if we want to race. We hold the trump card. Have Churchill Downs treat us as partners, and not slaves that they can push around.

It's the player's money they're fighting over. We hold the trump card.

[DJofSD]

It's the player's money they're fighting over. We hold the trump card.

[Indulto]

From the "Who is looking out for who ?" thread:

Originally Posted by Pace Cap'n

So now only the whales get the signal and are forced to beat up on each other--how ironic.

Originally Posted by DJofSD

... If things keep going the way they are now the only customers the horsemen's ADW will have are other horsemen. ...

Let's see the horsemen try to beat the whales at Elite and RGS.

I guess I'm fortunate that my own contact with people who own thoroughbreds has been limited to a few who hardly fit the picture of the ego-driven, power-seekers the article paints of Ramsay and the THG leaders.

Something IS wrong here. If Cheney raced horses rather than hunted, they'd probably invade Dubai ... once they stopped shooting themselves in the foot, that is.

[DeanT]

Just a random thought....... what about if this horseman group actually looked towards the real future? At the recently concluded gaming summit in Montreal (and Joe Riddell spoke about this at the recently concluded conference in Kentucky I think), betting exchanges were discussed. In Montreal a task force was put together to show the government the benefits of this medium in the 21st century. It is hopeful that they can be lobbied to change the betting laws to include this medium in the near future. Involved in the committee is everyone, including horseman's groups.

I know, I know, if it was done North America wide, rakes for the exchange would be 15% with the math-challenged, and it would never grow like it can, but if horseman and ADW's and tracks want to get on the same page and split something, helping to fix a hole in our wagering platform, why not that instead of hurting ADW revenue? Why not be a part of the future, than trying to change something that is the only growth driver in the game right now?

[DJofSD]

I am not familiar with betting exchanges. However, after a quick read of the article on Wikipedia, they look attractive, especially if I can lay a wager against a horse.

This could very well be a future development -- only if the entrenched powers can transition to the new paradyne and not loose any money. If they can be covinced they'll make more money then Katty-bar-the-door.

[startngate]

Originally Posted by BH Story

... Also speaking from the crowd, McPeek offered that a non-profit ADW could be established to benefit horsemen, and that some of those in attendance, such as owner Jack Wolf, who has a background as a hedge fund manager, could help make it happen.

“If we own half the signal, then maybe we need to do something about it,” McPeek said.

Casner said TOBA at one time considered establishing an ADW platform, but said the start-up costs made that prospect prohibitive.

Except they don't "own" half the signal. They don't own any of it.

While I'm a big fan of McPeek as a trainer, even if the horsemen were to create their own ADW, the tracks (who actually do own the signal) are not obligated to sell the signal to the horsemen's ADW.

And Casner knows that is the real reason the horsemen didn't do it when they talked about it previously. Is he seriously expecting us (and the tracks) to believe there aren't several horsemen with enough disposable capital that could foot the bill to get it started?

Originally Posted by ceejay

It's the player's money they're fighting over. We hold the trump card.

Very true, and after this is all said and done, I myself would never consider wagering with a "horsemen owned" ADW, even if one were created.

Originally Posted by BH Story

Bill Casner, chairman of the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association, said his group supports the THG, because it brings a “skill-set” to the negotiating table that evens the odds.

“The racetracks … this is their biggest fear, because they have a competitive edge in the negotiating room,” he said. “They would like nothing more than to have than a group that they could intimidate, to threaten to withhold stalls. But when you bring in your our team, it becomes a fair process.

IMO, this is the most telling part of the story. Based on the statements that are being made by the various people in the THG and McPeek and Casner in this story, their "skill-set" is not very good. They seem to think they know-it-all, but if their demands were really reasonable, and workable for ADW's and tracks, this whole situation would be over now.

A good negotiator that understands both sides of a deal can always get one done. A bad negotiator digs his heels in and refuses to listen. IMO both sides are probably doing a little of this and when that happens, the side with the most leverage wins. In this case, the tracks have it, and the horsemen don't (they just think they do). If Churchill wouldn't do a deal to protect the biggest day in racing in America each year, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has the bigger stick in this fight.

Originally Posted by BH Story

Speaking from the audience, Ramsey brought a thunderous round of applause when he suggested he and other horse owners could stage a boycott of their own by not entering horses at Churchill.

Be my guest ... PLEASE stop running. I can't bet on Churchill now anyway, so who cares? Churchill might, but I bet the "boycotters" go broke before they do.

Originally Posted by DeanT

..but if horseman and ADW's and tracks want to get on the same page and split something, helping to fix a hole in our wagering platform, why not that instead of hurting ADW revenue? Why not be a part of the future, than trying to change something that is the only growth driver in the game right now?

Eureka! Give that man a beer, scotch, vodka, or whatever he wants ... on me!

Create something NEW, and partner up on it guys!

[DJofSD]

Be my guest ... PLEASE stop running. I can't bet on Churchill now anyway, so who cares? Churchill might, but I bet the "boycotters" go broke before they do.

Exactly.

As it is now, I'm limiting myself to HOL. And I hate HOL. And pretty soon, the annual Del Mar Fair (oops, make that the San Diego County Fair) will be starting soon, making any trips to the OTB a non-starter. Sooooo, I find myself looking to scale back my handicapping until DMR starts in July.

Keep it up, horsemen. Obviouly, their too dumb to understand where the purse money comes from otherwise they'd think twice about a boycott.

Do you think any of the horsemen ever read this book?

[rrbauer]

I wish they would start their own ADW. Then we'll find out how really dumb they are. And, after they do that, they had better prepare to build a couple racetracks (if they want to run their horses).

THG jumped into the deep end of the pool....now they're thinking about swimming lessons.

[sjk]

No need to buid tracks.

Can buy the existing ones at the bankruptcy sale.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Originally Posted by sjk

No need to buid tracks.

Can buy the existing ones at the bankruptcy sale.

True. True. But might be legally forced to inherit these same horsemen. Unless the horsemen actually buy the track.

The THG horsemen could spend a lot of money and open an ADW, but who would want to sign up for an account with these tempermental people that have withheld signals?

Heck, why limit themselves to an ADW, open their own Racino - then they'll truly appreciate the expense of operating a racetrack. Would kind of be a bad sign if they opened their own racino - that would speak volumes as to the difficulty of making money on the racing side of the business, and what they're truly worth to the operaton (said it before, just a G-string to keep the Casino legal.)