Why Tracknet is in big trouble

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

Startngate, could you explain what gross takeout is as opposed to net takeout.

From my perspective, gross takeout includes the amount that will eventually be paid to some governmental agency as a license or operating fee. Usually this is a percentage of the betting.

What's left after that is net takeout and available for the splits being fought over.

Maybe startngate had something else in mind, I don't know.

[startngate]

Yes rrbauer it would include pari-mutuel taxes according to the THG. From the proposed THG contract ...

1 1 "Gross Takeout" is defined as that portion of a wager which is deducted from or not included in the pari-mutuel pool, and which is distributed to persons other than those placing wagers.

The proposed THG contract is Exhibit A of the CDI lawsuit that Pace posted here. It's located in item 01-4.pdf.

[Burls]

Originally Posted by DeanT

We get a report from a respected University telling us that an ideal takeout rate to maximize our revenue is 7%, but charge 20%.

This is something I have wondered about.
It's such a BASIC principle of business.
Sure, if you increase your profit margin, your net profit will rise.
But this only holds up to a point.
If you try to increase your profit margin by too much, you will acually LOWER your net profit by losing customers unwilling to pay the exhorbitant rate.
If you don't get this very SIMPLE principle of business, you will end up cutting your own throat.
What is wrong with these people?
Not only are they greedy and selfish; they're also just downright STUPID.
(With the exception of you, of course, Dean.)

[DeanT]

Hey Burls,

I honestly think it is because there is no central leadership in racing. Let's say every track says 9% is optimum and that is what the takeout would be. Handle would go up with the churn, and all would be motoring along. But we have a beggar thy neighbor thing happening. What if So Cal said "I am not lowering rakes" and they charge 20%. Well they would get the benefit from the churn of the other tracks placing cash in peoples pockets to rebet. They would rebet some there at 25% takeout. It actually incentivizes people to cheat. Any takeout reduction to the proper levels would have to be mandated right across the board. We would have to turn racing into Hong Kong, where what they say goes.

It might not be bad, hell they booted Biancone

I dont know how else to explain that (in my opinion) any better. In around 1970 there was a study done that elasticity of wagering demand is 1.0 at around 14% overall rakes. Later on another study said 12% (around 1992 or so I think), now with simulcasting,economies of scale, the fact we are not a monopoly any longer and massive tough to hit exotics it is said to be 7-10%.

With all those studies, some done in the 1960's saying rakes are too high, we have completely ignored them for a generation. I cant explain it. I honestly cant. The fact is that rakes are over 20% weighted average, have been going higher, and will go higher. Even with the most conservative estimates tracks have priced their product upwards of 80% too high. That is like McDonald's charging $8 for a Big Mac. It makes no sense.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by DeanT

With all those studies, some done in the 1960's saying rakes are too high, we have completely ignored them for a generation. I cant explain it. I honestly cant. The fact is that rakes are over 20% weighted average, have been going higher, and will go higher. Even with the most conservative estimates tracks have priced their product upwards of 80% too high. That is like McDonald's charging $8 for a Big Mac. It makes no sense.

You got me wondering how much a Big Mac was is Hong Kong, and it is cheaper there as well.
Figures (all prices in US Dollars) US BIG MAC=$2.50


Five most expensive

1. Iceland - US 7.44
2. Norway - US 6.63
3. Reunion Island 6.23
4. Switzerland - US 5.05
5. Denmark - US 4.84

Five most affordable

1. India - US 1.40
2. China - US 1.41
3. Hong Kong - US 1.54
4. Malaysia - US 1.57
5. Venezuela - US 1.58
6. Egypt - US 1.60

***************************
Of course, there is no guarantee that you get beef in Hong Kong

[BombsAway Bob]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

You got me wondering how much a Big Mac was is Hong Kong, and it is cheaper there as well.
Figures (all prices in US Dollars) US BIG MAC=$2.50


Five most expensive

1. Iceland - US 7.44
2. Norway - US 6.63
3. Reunion Island 6.23
4. Switzerland - US 5.05
5. Denmark - US 4.84

Five most affordable

1. India - US 1.40
2. China - US 1.41
3. Hong Kong - US 1.54
4. Malaysia - US 1.57
5. Venezuela - US 1.58
6. Egypt - US 1.60

***************************
Of course, there is no guarantee that you get beef in Hong Kong

Uh,Oh...Mayor McCheese will be demanding an apology!

[Pace Cap'n]

Could someone tell me what is a "horseman" as pertains to this discussioN?

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by Pace Cap'n

Could someone tell me what is a "horseman" as pertains to this discussioN?

Horseman is a trainer, or a trainer who owns, or an owner who trains

[cj]

Aren't owners considered horsemen as well, not only ones that train?

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by cj

Aren't owners considered horsemen as well, not only ones that train?

There is a strong feeling that owners don't have much to do with the dispute.

[cj]

I've never understood why they would be together anyway on many issues, including this one.

[Premier Turf Club]

Originally Posted by cj

Aren't owners considered horsemen as well, not only ones that train?

Yes. Joe Santanna, head of the PA HBPA is an owner and so is Bob Reeves from THG. Neither trained to the best of my knowledge.

[Indulto]

In perusing what I can find on-line regarding this THG/DragNet stalemate, it is becoming increasingly clear that this board is the one of the best, if not THE best, source of insight on the matter for non-insiders like myself.

Contributions from – and interactions between – posters such as NoCal Boy, Northern Dancer, PTC, and Startngate, go far beyond the B-H, TT, and DRF, although I personally believe the reporters and columnists from those publications have to leave a lot out to keep their sources.

My point is that, if it’s not already the case, this board could become a communication center for organizing horseplayers. I don’t know why trackthieves.com hasn’t attracted more support (maybe it needs additional charismatic leaders to make the Kool-Aid ).

I sometimes wish PTC wasn’t an ADW CEO, because his infectious horseplayer enthusiasm and intellectual curiosity -- combined with his inside knowledge and contacts -- would seemingly make him an ideal recruiter and negotiator for a horseplayers’ benevolent association.

To me it seems that most posters here (myself included), simply add to the usual whining, wishful thinking, and wimpishness that allows track and ALMOST ALL ADW management to stick it to horseplayers. The first step IMO is to get their attention by NOT BETTING for JUST ONE SINGLE day.

cj has suggested making it one of the biggest days, but I don’t think trying to harness non-dedicated players will work. Maybe it has to be restricted to a single major track to really have an impact.


http://www.last.fm/music/Doris+Troy/_/Just+One+Look

With apologies to G Carroll and D Payne


Just one day
Can we be so a-a-all
In control
Of our wallets?
Oh, Oh
We’ll find out
How good it fee-ee-eels
To send a message
They can’t ignore
Oh, Oh

Say you will
Will join toge-e-ther
For as long
as it takes
Oh, oh
Just one track
And they’ll know-ow-ow
That we can truly
Act as wo-o-o-o-o-one.

(chorus)
They thought they were winnen’
But they were wrong
Oh, yeah, yeah
Cause we’re gonna keep on growin’
'Til their takeout makes it on down.

So, you see
We really ca-a-are
Without us, they’re nothin'
Oh, oh
Just one track
And I kno-o-ow
We’ll get it someday
Oh, oh

Just one track
That’s all it took

Just one track
They had to look

Just one track
It got them shook

Just one track
Rewrite the book

Just one track
Pawn takes rook

Just one track
Get off the hook

[Premier Turf Club]

In perusing what I can find on-line regarding this THG/DragNet stalemate, it is becoming increasingly clear that this board is the one of the best, if not THE best, source of insight on the matter for non-insiders like myself.

Contributions from – and interactions between – posters such as NoCal Boy, Northern Dancer, PTC, and Startngate, go far beyond the B-H, TT, and DRF, although I personally believe the reporters and columnists from those publications have to leave a lot out to keep their sources.

I learn more from this board than I contribute. I like hearing what other horseplayers are thinking.

My point is that, if it’s not already the case, this board could become a communication center for organizing horseplayers. I don’t know why trackthieves.com hasn’t attracted more support (maybe it needs additional charismatic leaders to make the Kool-Aid ).

I sometimes wish PTC wasn’t an ADW CEO, because his infectious horseplayer enthusiasm and intellectual curiosity -- combined with his inside knowledge and contacts -- would seemingly make him an ideal recruiter and negotiator for a horseplayers’ benevolent association.

Sometimes I feel like Victor Kiam from the old Remington Shavers commercial ("I liked them so much I bought the company"). To paraphrase, "I love playing horses so much I decided to start an ADW so all my friends and I can bet."

To me it seems that most posters here (myself included), simply add to the usual whining, wishful thinking, and wimpishness that allows track and ALMOST ALL ADW management to stick it to horseplayers. The first step IMO is to get their attention by NOT BETTING for JUST ONE SINGLE day.

cj has suggested making it one of the biggest days, but I don’t think trying to harness non-dedicated players will work. Maybe it has to be restricted to a single major track to really have an impact.

Just tell me when it is. I can use a day off.

[ponypro]

Some time back I used the term "Scorched Earth" to predict Bob Evans behavior and unfortunately it has played out. This is a military strategy that seeks to destroy anything useful while advancing or withdrawing from an military engagement. The racing fans ability to remotely enjoy the sport is being decimated.

HERES MY PLAN

I attended a good part of the Keeneland live meet. Its a slice of heaven and they get it right from a-z.

PTC covers Keeneland and provides great handicapping help.

I am going to play only the Keenland meet either on vacation or thru PTC
F**K EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im out for a long time