Religion II

[hcap]

"What Jewish writers", you ask? Seriously? I guess you think Gentiles wrote Matthew, Mark and John?

Good question, and the answer is the reason you should not assume historical accuracy and definitely avoid literal interpretation.

Why Scholars Doubt the Traditional Authors of the Gospels

https://infidels.org/library/modern/...l-authors.html

The traditional authors of the canonical Gospels—Matthew the tax collector, Mark the attendant of Peter, Luke the attendant of Paul, and John the son of Zebedee—are doubted among the majority of mainstream New Testament scholars.

...As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels). I have discussed elsewhere some of the reasons why scholars recognize that the Gospels are not historical in their genre, purpose, or character in my article "Ancient Historical Writing Compared to the Gospels of the New Testament." However, I will now also lay out a resource here explaining why many scholars likewise doubt the traditional authorial attributions of the Gospels.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Jesus said “You search the scriptures daily, for in them you think you have life.”

Saint Paul talked of "the spirit which giveth life and the letter which kills."

That is your problem. Reading scripture after scripture which anyone can spin anyway. Not enough reality, God within.

Meanwhile, the Jesus you say you believe in said,

Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'"
NASB

It's no wonder you have no life in you.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Meanwhile, the Jesus you say you believe in said,

Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'"
NASB

It's no wonder you have no life in you.

Yes, but Jesus is talking about doing that in reality, not fantasy as people who regurgitate the scriptures and never practice them do.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

Yes, but Jesus is talking about doing that in reality, not fantasy as people who regurgitate the scriptures and never practice them do.

That's right. It's one thing to talk about religion...and it's an entirely DIFFERENT thing to live a "religious life". Boxcar was absent on the day when Christianity was teaching about "compassion", and "humility".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Yes, but Jesus is talking about doing that in reality, not fantasy as people who regurgitate the scriptures and never practice them do.

"Doing that in reality" involves reading and studying the Word of God daily.

What is your reality: Eating the Word at a meal like you'd eat bread?

And don't worry about the people who read but don't practice, since you yourself fit into a very similar category, for you neither read or practice. After all, how can you put into practice something you never read?

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

"Doing that in reality" involves reading and studying the Word of God daily.

If that's all there is to connecting with the profoundness of God then there is no God. Because in that practice there is only ego which cannot know God by its own nature.

God resides in you as you. Without connection to that inner world, you do not know God nor yourself.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I've come to the conclusion that there was a man named Jesus.

There were also men named L. Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, Gautam Buddha, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and so on. They all have books too.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I've come to the conclusion that there was a man named Jesus.

There were also men named L. Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, Gautam Buddha, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and so on. They all have books too.

And Sathya Sai Baba.

[thaskalos]

And Neale Donald Walsch!

https://www.amazon.com/Conversations...70_&dpSrc=srch

[Light]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And Neale Donald Walsch!

Didn't read the books but watched the movie. Great. Love this quote from God:

You have projected the role of “parent” onto God, and have thus come up with a God Who judges and rewards or punishes, based on how good He feels about what you’ve been up to. But this is a simplistic view of God, based on your mythology. It has nothing to do with Who God is.

Having thus created an entire thought system about God based on human experience rather than spiritual truths, you then create an entire reality around love. It is a fear-based reality, rooted in the idea of a fearful, vengeful God.

Should I punish you for having to make a choice that I myself have laid before you?

If you knew Who You Are --- that you are the most magnificent, the most remarkable, the most splendid being God has ever created --- you would never fear. But you do not know Who You Are, and you think you are a great deal less

[hcap]

The wretched boxcarian biblical doctrine of original sin.

Originally Posted by boxcar

"And infants are not sinless LEGALLY! Try to get that through your thick head. Infants are guilty of Adam's sin, but are made LEGALLY righteous by the imputation of the Last Adam's righteousness."

"Most normal people only call other people evil on the basis of their deeds. Hint: Infants are not old enough to sin.

Box, you never explained your god's love for smiting infants.

I asked.......

Then what law did your literal minded god use to smite the Egyptian first born and smite and slaughter the suckling infants during the Amalekite genocide?
.........................................

Sounds like a case for the law of non-contradiction to me. How's about you?

:

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Good question, and the answer is the reason you should not assume historical accuracy and definitely avoid literal interpretation.

Why Scholars Doubt the Traditional Authors of the Gospels

https://infidels.org/library/modern/...l-authors.html

The traditional authors of the canonical Gospels—Matthew the tax collector, Mark the attendant of Peter, Luke the attendant of Paul, and John the son of Zebedee—are doubted among the majority of mainstream New Testament scholars.

...As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels). I have discussed elsewhere some of the reasons why scholars recognize that the Gospels are not historical in their genre, purpose, or character in my article "Ancient Historical Writing Compared to the Gospels of the New Testament." However, I will now also lay out a resource here explaining why many scholars likewise doubt the traditional authorial attributions of the Gospels.

Scholars, scholars, scholars. There are many scholars, for you info, who see things very differently.

So...who wrote the Gospels: antisemitic Greeks who had it in for the Jews?

In fact, we can toss out the entire bible because the entire book is under this huge black cloud of doubt. (But thank GOD, you don't doubt your precious antichrist scholars!) Moses never wrote the first five books. Isaiah was written by a slew of people, very, very late during the post-Babylonian era. Ditto for Daniel. Maybe Daniel was even written very shortly before the first advent of Christ, etc., etc.

Meanwhile, all these unknown and unknowable and mysterious writers (who mirror your same kind of god) wrote a seamless, organic, harmonious redemptive story about a Jewish Messiah who would come and atone for the sins of His Father's people and usher in the Kingdom of God which at first would indwell God's people through the Holy Spirit and then later these same people would dwell in the physical kingdom.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The wretched boxcarian biblical doctrine of original sin.

Box, you never explained your god's love for smiting infants.

I asked.......

Then what law did your literal minded god use to smite the Egyptian first born and smite and slaughter the suckling infants during the Amalekite genocide?
.........................................

Sounds like a case for the law of non-contradiction to me. How's about you?

:

These things have been discussed often in the past. The short, abbreviated, condensed explanation is this:

Deut 7:1-5
When the Lord your God shall bring you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and shall clear away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the Lord your God shall deliver them before you, and you shall defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. 3 Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and He will quickly destroy you. 5 But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.
NASB

And then God reiterated THREE times to Israel why he was driving out the nations and giving the land to the Hebrew. It wasn't because the Hebrews were a righteous people but rather because God was going to judge these seven wicked nations by dispossessing them from the land.

Deut 9:4-6
4 Do not say in your heart when the Lord your God has driven them out before you, 'Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land,' but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is dispossessing them before you. 5 It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Know, then, it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stubborn people.
NASB

And so it is with most Jews until this very day -- they remain a stubborn, stiff-necked people!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

These things have been discussed often in the past. The short, abbreviated, condensed explanation is this:

Deut 7:1-5
When the Lord your God shall bring you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and shall clear away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the Lord your God shall deliver them before you, and you shall defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. 3 Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and He will quickly destroy you. 5 But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.
NASB

And then God reiterated THREE times to Israel why he was driving out the nations and giving the land to the Hebrew. It wasn't because the Hebrews were a righteous people but rather because God was going to judge these seven wicked nations by dispossessing them from the land.

Deut 9:4-6
4 Do not say in your heart when the Lord your God has driven them out before you, 'Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land,' but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is dispossessing them before you. 5 It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Know, then, it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stubborn people.
NASB

And so it is with most Jews until this very day -- they remain a stubborn, stiff-necked people!

All of this, and NO answer to my question about your biblical Christian twisted and convoluted dogma about original sin and why if infants were not of "Legal" age, (whatever that is??), your ridiculous bloodthirsty god slaughtered them. Your attempt at god supposedly "passing judgement" and therefore all his f**king absurd smiting of infants rings as hollow as your pseudo-science.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

All of this, and NO answer to my question about your biblical Christian twisted and convoluted dogma about original sin and why if infants were not of "Legal" age, (whatever that is??), your ridiculous bloodthirsty god slaughtered them. Your attempt at god supposedly "passing judgement" and therefore all his f**king absurd smiting of infants rings as hollow as your pseudo-science.

What part of the Deuteronomy 7 and 9 passages that I quoted don't you understand?

The Promised Land that God promised to the Patriarchs was a type of the Eternal Kingdom of God, a/k/a heaven. As such, no wicked person was to occupy that Land. Children and infants could not be spared, for eventually they would have grown up and intermarriage would have taken place, which God expressly forbade. The Jews were called of God to be a sanctified people -- a holy people -- a people separated from the world and given over wholly to loving and serving their Holy Covenant God.

Even Abraham understood that the Promised Land in this world was but a shadow of the ultimate reality, which was:

Heb 11:8-16
8By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 [b]By faith he lived as an ALIEN in the land of promise, as in a FOREIGN land[b], dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised; 12 therefore, also, there was born of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is a heavenly one.
NASB

Now we fast forward a bit to the passage in Revelations that talks about this better country, that is a heavenly one:

Rev 21:1-5, 27
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He shall dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be among them, 4 and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away. 5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 And He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." ...27 and nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
NASB

No sinner of any kind will inherit the eternal kingdom. Only God's people, who were made righteous by the shed blood of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ) will receive the eternal inheritance. Of course, at the Second Coming, Christ himself will drive out all the goats from his kingdom into eternal perdition. Only his sheep will enter his Kingdom.

Matt 25:31-35, 41
31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world..41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
NASB

In short, the Eternal Kingdom of Heaven/God is the antitype to the Promised Land and as such is the ultimate fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant in all its aspects.

Finally, you keep conveniently forgetting that all human beings are legally guilty of Adam's imputed sin, since he was the Federal Head of the human race. Therefore, God was just in condemning all inhabitants of the seven wicked nations that were driven out of the Promised Land.

As Paul said, There is none righteous, no not even one (Rom 3:10).