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Old 10-14-2018, 01:45 AM   #1
JustRalph
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Past posting .....again

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...g-investigated
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:42 AM   #2
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Confusing that they would own up to it this weekend, but not say anything about last weekend. Figured they would go all in one way or the other.

My suspicion is that last week’s incident may have been isolated to only TwinSpires, with only a few bets affected, so NYRA did nothing. And today was a network-wide issue (with NYRA themselves not locking the pool on time), so they had to refund.

That’s probably the worst case scenario, since it shows widespread failures all over the industry.

In the words of our President, maybe NYRA needs a total shutdown of these multi-track pick pools, until they figure out what the hell is going on.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:52 AM   #3
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We've heard over and over again that this stuff doesn't happen.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:37 AM   #4
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These "special" bets are the one way it can happen easily. Their post signal is not controlled by the judges in almost if not all cases. They rely on a tote operator to watch their logs for when the judge locks the race and the do the same on the extra event.

Not hard but normally that tote operator is watching TV or sleeping or something as they really don't do much the rest of their shift. Its an extraordinarily boring job most of the time.

To fix it they would need to tie the main first race to the special event and often times the two events aren't even on the same tote system as host....

Until they do that 100% of the time it's going to remain possible. Screaming at operators will work for a month or so but the job will remain the same.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:03 PM   #5
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Confusing that they would own up to it this weekend, but not say anything about last weekend. Figured they would go all in one way or the other.

My suspicion is that last week’s incident may have been isolated to only TwinSpires, with only a few bets affected, so NYRA did nothing. And today was a network-wide issue (with NYRA themselves not locking the pool on time), so they had to refund.

That’s probably the worst case scenario, since it shows widespread failures all over the industry.

In the words of our President, maybe NYRA needs a total shutdown of these multi-track pick pools, until they figure out what the hell is going on.
Why is it confusing? Public relations nightmare, if they thought the problem was fixed then it would likely not come out for a long while in some buried report.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:17 PM   #6
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These "special" bets are the one way it can happen easily. Their post signal is not controlled by the judges in almost if not all cases. They rely on a tote operator to watch their logs for when the judge locks the race and the do the same on the extra event.

Not hard but normally that tote operator is watching TV or sleeping or something as they really don't do much the rest of their shift. Its an extraordinarily boring job most of the time.

To fix it they would need to tie the main first race to the special event and often times the two events aren't even on the same tote system as host....

Until they do that 100% of the time it's going to remain possible. Screaming at operators will work for a month or so but the job will remain the same.
Seriously? It is really that hard to find somebody competent to do this job with millions at risk?

It's typical of this industry. Basically run by morons.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:53 PM   #7
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Have you placed your last horse racing wager?
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:03 PM   #8
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It's not that the people aren't generally competent. There is only so much waiting anyone can do without loosing track of something.

Almost everything is automated now to some degree with a splatter of yes no prompts that are supposed to trigger human double checking but generally are blown through because the system is so rarely wrong now. Automation isn't bad, but once you hit a certain threshold in it then it requires complete automation for any critical tasks.

Introducing a manual task that requires action into that mix is only asking for trouble at some point.


I know some tote companies can link the two events to post simultaneously. That should be a requirement for hosting these extra pools. If that is done then the main problem is removed.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:26 PM   #9
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It's not that the people aren't generally competent. There is only so much waiting anyone can do without loosing track of something.

Almost everything is automated now to some degree with a splatter of yes no prompts that are supposed to trigger human double checking but generally are blown through because the system is so rarely wrong now. Automation isn't bad, but once you hit a certain threshold in it then it requires complete automation for any critical tasks.

Introducing a manual task that requires action into that mix is only asking for trouble at some point.


I know some tote companies can link the two events to post simultaneously. That should be a requirement for hosting these extra pools. If that is done then the main problem is removed.
This is quite an intelligent response. It really has to be extremely difficult to keep one's attention sharp through this process.

Of course, from the public's POV, it is seen as "YOU'VE ONLY GOT THIS ONE JOB!"

Of course, the customer has the right to expect that near-perfect integrity should be a high concern. Currently, it is not high enough.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:52 PM   #10
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No way this should be manual , it should be programmed to shut on the first leg at whatever track is hosting .


Barring that , have TWO people responsible for the shutoff. If they still blow it , you fire them both
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:58 PM   #11
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Until they do that 100% of the time it's going to remain possible. Screaming at operators will work for a month or so but the job will remain the same.
I would suggest in that case, Best Practices would tell you to not offer the bet until you are capable of offering it properly.

This is a business, not a hobby.
It has nothing to do with the competence of the employees - they are operating within the system the management has provided for them.

This is 100% a management error.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:00 PM   #12
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Of course, the customer has the right to expect that near-perfect integrity should be a high concern.
In the real world, the goal is zero defects.
1 in a million is NOT acceptable.
Customers expect zero defects.

Has been that way for many years now.
Ahsin,n in the real world.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:56 PM   #13
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This is quite an intelligent response. It really has to be extremely difficult to keep one's attention sharp through this process.

Of course, from the public's POV, it is seen as "YOU'VE ONLY GOT THIS ONE JOB!"

Of course, the customer has the right to expect that near-perfect integrity should be a high concern. Currently, it is not high enough.
Human error is a science for sure, but we are well past that.



100% of the integrity depends on a night watchman not going to the bathroom at the wrong time.


2002 Breeders cup debacle seems so far away., and here we are in 2018. Shouldn't these systems be airtight by now? There should be a series of technical stops that would prevent this.

Autotote insider fraud has its own wikipedia page. U can google and find dozens of pari-mutuel pool fraud stories almost annually.

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The 2002 Breeders' Cup betting scandal was an incident that arose when computer programmer Chris Harn to manipulate bets in the 2002 Breeders' Cup
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:08 PM   #14
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In the real world, the goal is zero defects.
1 in a million is NOT acceptable.
Customers expect zero defects.

Has been that way for many years now.
Ahsin,n in the real world.
That is an unrealistic expectation.
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Old 10-14-2018, 07:26 PM   #15
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In the real world, the goal is zero defects.
1 in a million is NOT acceptable.
Customers expect zero defects.

Has been that way for many years now.
Ahsin,n in the real world.
In the real world tracks should be more transparent with their tote system since they have the ability to track any wager....on track, simulcast, ADW, etc..

Make them open their books up to an independent investigator (HANA??) Let's really see what's going on within the last minute or so of wagering. Are the whales really responsible for all the late odds drops? Are wagers on horizontals being punched after a one leg or more has been completed?

They would never do it though. No news it good news when it comes to the nuts and bolts of pari-mutuel wagering.
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