Any predictions for Greece?

[badcompany]

Originally Posted by DJofSD

Are you kidding? The last referendum got them diddly squat.

The last referendum was a joke. It was like a bunch of deadbeats voting on whether they wanted to pay their Visa bills.

The problem is that Greeks want to stay in the European Union but they don't want to pay. Sorry, don't work that way.

If they don't like the rules, leave the the Euro, default and start over. Of course, that option would entail a hard budget and having their credit cards cut up.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by badcompany

The last referendum was a joke.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/08/radi...oliberal_spin/

Greeks voted courage over fear. They insisted that there is a value higher than market value—this value being the commonweal, the well-being of a society and the people who comprise it. They asked, Does the polity serve the market, or does the market serve the polity? This is one of the essential questions of our time, however rarely it gets asked. Posing it is a very large deed in itself, a favor to all others, and the Greeks’ reply is larger still, of course.

Originally Posted by badcompany

It was like a bunch of deadbeats voting on whether they wanted to pay their Visa bills.

Obviously you do not understand economics very well..

What do Visa bills have to do with the austerity imposed by Germany, pushing the people of Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Cyprus to misery and poverty, in another efford to fulfil its eternal vision, of occupying the European continent?

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[Saratoga_Mike]

"What do Visa bills have to do with the austerity imposed by Germany, pushing the people of Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Cyprus to misery and poverty, in another efford to fulfil its eternal vision, of occupying the European continent?"

Come on Delta - the other countries need to take SOME responsibility for their situations. And Germany doesn't have a vision of occupying the continent, imo.

[badcompany]

Another Marxist blaming everything except the big government socialist model for their problems.

[badcompany]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

"What do Visa bills have to do with the austerity imposed by Germany, pushing the people of Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Cyprus to misery and poverty, in another efford to fulfil its eternal vision, of occupying the European continent?"

Come on Delta - the other countries need to take SOME responsibility for their situations. And Germany doesn't have a vision of occupying the continent, imo.

He leaves out that the reason those countries wanted to be in the European Union in the first place was so that they could piggyback off of Germany's credit rating.

[newtothegame]

I must preface this post by saying I do not know much about what is happening in Greece, nor am I of any relation to Greece.

It appears to me, that a lot of people are upset about what Germany is doing (pushing their weight around). Well hell fire, if you don't like it, then don't deal with the Germans! You can't borrow money from the Gambino's then turn around and say you don't like the deal! Now of course I am not saying Germany is in any way related to or associated with the mafia however, you get my drift.

Next, for any country, person, or entity to go out and say " we need money.....and borrow that money, and then have the gall to say we don't want to pay it back....well that's just down right theft. Many of you can say it is the greeks who are being robbed yet, I am thinking both ends of it are trying to rob the other.

I would say the same for the U.S as well......we have borrowed ourselves into oblivion and if the Chinese ever come calling, we have only TWO options. Pay or war! This kicking the can down the road is plain and utter BS.

At this point, who in their right minds would lend Greece, (or the US for that matter) any more money? Yes, I know the US is in a much better bargaining position but, the end result will still be the same.

Lotta (for all of the grief conspiracy theorist get), is right on target in my opinion. The few at the "top" will pillage Greece for whatever it is worth. Then where do the greeks stand? As slaves to the one who owns their debt and assets. These smaller countries are falling one after another and all are looking for "forgiving" their debt.....yeah right! Nothing is free!

The people of Greece deserve better, as do the people of the U.S.
People better wake up and start tossing these governments out on their arses!

As I do every year, I just took my phone call (looking for a pledge) from the Republican National Party. Although, this time was a bit different. I asked them (I think the guys name was Chris) one basic question and provided that if he answered it right (in my eyes), I would make my pledge.....
"How is the Republican ESTABLISHMENT supporting me and my views". He proceeded to tell me how we cant allow Hillary to get elected... three times, I again asked the same question. Three times he told me how bad Hillary would be for the Country. Lmao, I guess he didn't believe me. Then I thanked him for the call and told him to give this message to Boehner for me....KISS MY F$%^&*() A$$.
I will not continue to support a party that does not support my views.
In the end, I will vote for whichever (R) is against Hillary but, no more money for those fools. Point here is that people need to step up and through these established governments away. They serve one purpose...THEMSELVES.

[fast4522]

Perhaps it would be accurate to say they are looking at a serious hangover, or just the beginning of deep pain that spreads to other countries. The question is if they vote to accept the deal, either way it is on them.

[AndyC]

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk,
telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs,
the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times
and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory,
pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything........No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by AndyC

...
No one produced anything........No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

I get what you're getting at .... but, doesn't each of these people except the hooker owe the government some % in taxes?

So, the government and the hooker are the ones coming out ahead in this scenario.

The hooker should pay taxes but probably doesn't.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I get what you're getting at .... but, doesn't each of these people except the hooker owe the government some % in taxes?

One of the reasons the Greek government is in such a financial hole is that the Greeks are notorious for tax evasion and for tax avoidance through their huge underground economy.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

A German government official shows up in a small Greek village, stops at a local hotel, and asks the owner for a €100 loan to be repaid. When informed that the money is not available to pay the loan, the German official responds, "I'll loan you some more money to make the interest payment, and I'll be back next month."

The next month the German official returns, smiles, and asks the owner for the €120 loan to be repaid. The owner points out the economy is down and it's the off-season, and the money is not available. The German official responds, "I'll loan you some more money to make the interest payment, and someone will be back next month."

The next month a Gestapo agent returns, smiles, and asks the owner for the €275 loan to be repaid. The owner complains of the high interest rate, and that by the time the hotel season starts back up, the balance will be too high to ever pay off. The agent responds, "Too bad for you, not my problem. I'll loan you some more money to make the interest payment, and I'll be back next month." The owner calls the police to file a harassment complaint and writes to his local politician for assistance, but receives no help.

The next month the Gestapo agent returns with two Waffen SS soldiers, and presents the owner with paperwork indicating default on a €1000 loan, and to sign title paperwork transferring ownership of his hotel to the German bank. The owner, sweating profusely, signs the document, and is given a choice to vacate the premises within 1 hour or be shot.

[fast4522]

For Sale

http://www.businessinsider.com/greek...d-price-2015-7


Tough to find an appropriate tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jffi6BaROk

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Oh, he meant reserve currency - sorry.

Yeah, the notion of the yuan as a reserve currency is laughable.

The goal of every nation on earth with some understanding of the current system should be to get out of the dollar based system. They are required to accumulate dollar reserves to do business but then have to watch the US monetize debt and inflate away the value of those dollars every time the US economy sneezes. The last time it was a few trillion dollars worth in a handful of years.

It's going to take a long time to get rid of this system, especially since the US defends a lot of nations that are currently buying our bonds and we can threaten them. But the process is already underway.

Virtually every country that we are not on good terms with is already signing deals with each other in their own currencies to bypass the dollar in trade as much as possible. So it's just a matter of time before some other fiat currency, some other monetary system, or preferably a backed currency replaces the dollar as the reserve currency.

Maybe China is 25-50 years away.

Maybe the Germans will continue to be tough and Europe will get their act together and Euro will come next.

Maybe everyone will get so sick of the irresponsibility of the US there will be a stampede out of the dollar and force a reorganization of the system.

I don't know the trigger. What I am sure of is that a lot of people want out. That much is certain. They aren't even shy about saying and doing things about it anymore. Heck, I want out.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by fast4522

For Sale

http://www.businessinsider.com/greek...d-price-2015-7


Tough to find an appropriate tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jffi6BaROk

This is pathetic.

No matter how painful a Grexit would have been in the short term, that's what they should have done over these asset sales. They should have run the domestic economy on their own currency, dealt with the hyperinflation in the short term, used the Euro or dollar for international trade, and built from a sound base. Now, they are just as buried in debt as before except they have to sell off more of the country for pennies on the dollar to international vultures. It's even money some fund run by George Soros is already picking through the carcass. The name of the fund is probably Triple6 Investments or Beelzebub Limited.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Virtually every country that we are not on good terms with is already signing deals with each other in their own currencies to bypass the dollar in trade as much as possible. So it's just a matter of time before some other fiat currency, some other monetary system, or preferably a backed currency replaces the dollar as the reserve currency.

Maybe China is 25-50 years away.

Technology, and this World, are moving along just too fast these days...

So, I actually believe that it is rather sooner than that, and is approaching our doorstep rather quickly...

There is just too, too much uncertainty, unrest, and coincidence going on simultaneously thruout the Globe these days, to think in terms of lots of years to go yet...