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04-16-2018, 11:42 PM
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#1
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Interesting article on the Pegasus
A lot of us figure out what was going on a long time ago, but there is some really good stuff in here that wasn't specifically spelled out before.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...sus-world-cup/
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It was originally pitched that, for a $1 million investment, stakeholders would divide the revenue from the handle, television rights and sponsorship so that they could offset the gap between their $1 million investment and the $250,000 paid to the fourth through 12th finishers. Yet, in 2017, the added income amounted to roughly $100,000 for each starter and most stakeholders fumed and did not return for Year Two after losing more than $750,000 in some cases.
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Quote:
To make race more attractive for everyone, the Stronach Group accepted only $350,000 from each stakeholder. Therefore, since they did not pay the $1 million, stakeholders with horses who finished sixth or worse did not receive any purse money.
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Last edited by cj; 04-16-2018 at 11:45 PM.
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04-17-2018, 01:45 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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That was a good read--thanks for posting. My take-away from the article is that the Pegasus is a work in progress; at least they're trying to do something for older dirt horses at the time of year when they're not bucking up against the twin juggernauts of college & pro football.
Personally, I like the idea in the comments at the bottom of having Stronach staging a series with The Big Cap, The Pegasus, and the Pimlico Special. $5mil bonus for sweeping all 3, $2.5 for winning two
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04-17-2018, 01:50 PM
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#3
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
That was a good read--thanks for posting. My take-away from the article is that the Pegasus is a work in progress; at least they're trying to do something for older dirt horses at the time of year when they're not bucking up against the twin juggernauts of college & pro football.
Personally, I like the idea in the comments at the bottom of having Stronach staging a series with The Big Cap, The Pegasus, and the Pimlico Special. $5mil bonus for sweeping all 3, $2.5 for winning two
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They are trying, and it is a good thing, but there is no reason to keep making up fake purse amounts. Turns out they never even took a million from the entrants this year so the purse was phony not only in theory but in actual practice.
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04-17-2018, 02:52 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
They are trying, and it is a good thing, but there is no reason to keep making up fake purse amounts. Turns out they never even took a million from the entrants this year so the purse was phony not only in theory but in actual practice.
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The fake purse is absolutely central to marketing the race. It needs to be high enough that Dubai is deterred from further purse hikes.
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04-17-2018, 03:01 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
The fake purse is absolutely central to marketing the race. It needs to be high enough that Dubai is deterred from further purse hikes.
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Good luck trying to outbid Dubai out of anything. I just returned from a week-long vacation there. Do you know that they charge $24 for a 16.9 oz. plastic bottle of water in their hotels? I paid $32 for a bottle of water in their restaurants...but, at least that was for a bigger bottle.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 04-17-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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04-17-2018, 03:05 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
That was a good read--thanks for posting. My take-away from the article is that the Pegasus is a work in progress; at least they're trying to do something for older dirt horses at the time of year when they're not bucking up against the twin juggernauts of college & pro football.
Personally, I like the idea in the comments at the bottom of having Stronach staging a series with The Big Cap, The Pegasus, and the Pimlico Special. $5mil bonus for sweeping all 3, $2.5 for winning two
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I'd like to see him promoting the classics of handicapping instead of helping to kill them. The Pegasus, just like the Donn it replaced, comes too soon in the year (or too late depending on how you want to see it). It may keep a big stars around for one more race, but it doesn't keep them racing. Make a superfund series with the Pegasus in July, sandwiched between the WC and BCC. We might at least get more 3 yos to come back at 4.
Move the Big Cap to Feb, so it can be a prep for the WC, move the Gold Cup and the JCGC to Memorial Day weekend, so they can be preps for the Pegasus on July 4, move the Pacific Classic and Whitney to the first weekend in August, move the Woodward and Awesome Again to Labor Day weekend, so they can BCC preps (the Awesome Again is, but the Woodward is at a weird time).
Have a superfund triple crown series, and east coast/west coast handicap series, with bonuses, and with a monster bonus to any horse that sweeps the superfund and handicap series. Then let horses rest from Nov to Feb. I don't know what race to pair with the Big Cap, maybe the Hal's Hope.
The Stephen Foster and Pimlico Special are on their own.
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04-17-2018, 03:09 PM
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#7
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
The fake purse is absolutely central to marketing the race. It needs to be high enough that Dubai is deterred from further purse hikes.
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But when it is a lie and everyone knows it that isn't really good marketing. Horses can and do run in both so they aren't really competing anyway. They had to find three no hope horses just the fill the gate. Nobody was fooled.
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04-17-2018, 03:18 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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If thing go right there will be a 16 million dollar race in Saudi arabia next year with no entry fee. why put a million up front when you just need to get your horse to saudi arabia for a change at the big bucks
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1281806/sports
Allan
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04-17-2018, 03:24 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,614
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I don't understand why a purse should ever be so large the betting handle from it doesn't come close to covering the purse. Granted, if it's a marquee race and draws extra attendance, merchandise sales, and betting on other races like the Pegasus, that has to be part of the equation also.
But basically, if a certain race or race type doesn't generate as much as the track is giving out in purse money, someone is losing money on it.
So why do it?
Why should some races subsidize others?
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 04-17-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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04-17-2018, 03:46 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Good luck trying to outbid Dubai out of anything. I just returned from a week-long vacation there. Do you know that they charge $24 for a 16.9 oz. plastic bottle of water in their hotels? I paid $32 for a bottle of water in their restaurants...but, at least that was for a bigger bottle.
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The fake purse allows Stronach to say "no matter how high you go you won't have the richest race". That is ridiculously important.
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04-17-2018, 03:47 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
But when it is a lie and everyone knows it that isn't really good marketing. Horses can and do run in both so they aren't really competing anyway. They had to find three no hope horses just the fill the gate. Nobody was fooled.
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It prevents Dubai from being able to say they have the richest race, which in turn deters an arms race that Dubai would win.
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04-17-2018, 03:48 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
I'd like to see him promoting the classics of handicapping instead of helping to kill them. The Pegasus, just like the Donn it replaced, comes too soon in the year (or too late depending on how you want to see it). It may keep a big stars around for one more race, but it doesn't keep them racing. Make a superfund series with the Pegasus in July, sandwiched between the WC and BCC. We might at least get more 3 yos to come back at 4.
Move the Big Cap to Feb, so it can be a prep for the WC, move the Gold Cup and the JCGC to Memorial Day weekend, so they can be preps for the Pegasus on July 4, move the Pacific Classic and Whitney to the first weekend in August, move the Woodward and Awesome Again to Labor Day weekend, so they can BCC preps (the Awesome Again is, but the Woodward is at a weird time).
Have a superfund triple crown series, and east coast/west coast handicap series, with bonuses, and with a monster bonus to any horse that sweeps the superfund and handicap series. Then let horses rest from Nov to Feb. I don't know what race to pair with the Big Cap, maybe the Hal's Hope.
The Stephen Foster and Pimlico Special are on their own.
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That's sentiment. Business doesn't run on sentiment.
In the business world, the Pegasus solved a real problem.
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04-17-2018, 03:52 PM
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#13
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
The fake purse is absolutely central to marketing the race. It needs to be high enough that Dubai is deterred from further purse hikes.
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I don't buy that. What is crucial is getting the best horses to run, and so far they have done that. The fake purse isn't getting them there, the real purse is.
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04-17-2018, 03:52 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,291
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Since racing decision makers already think it's ok to make horseplayers deal with fake attendance numbers, fake workouts, fake rides, fake surfaces, fake distances, fake times, and fake odds:
What's the harm in letting the Stronach Group have at least one race a year with a fake purse?
-jp
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04-17-2018, 03:54 PM
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#15
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
It prevents Dubai from being able to say they have the richest race, which in turn deters an arms race that Dubai would win.
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How does it deter an arms race as you say? If anything it encourages one. If they advertised the real purse it is lower than the World Cup.
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