the slide continues

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Everybody realizes that you are playing against the other fans. No matter how good the other players are they still can't stop you from cashing a ticket if you have the right horse and/or combination. Failure in horse betting doesn't mean that John Smith beat me it means that I couldn't figure out what to bet.

I have seen people who don't want to go to the races because they never cash tickets but I have never seen a player who quit going because their payoffs were 10% light.

I have to disagree. I have 2 friends who quit because they couldn’t stomach the late odds changes and the lower payoffs in general. I’ve also bet less this year than any this decade after a resurgence the previous few years.

[classhandicapper]

I think on track rebates would stimulate attendance if that's a goal.

I literally live 5 minutes from Belmont and get in for free because I'm an owner. I still usually bet from home because it's more comfortable. Unless there's a big race I want to see or one of my own horses is running I'm at home. Give me an extra 3% and my thinking might change.

But again, the track may not care about extra attendance if that requires adding more employees. The handle is obviously the most important thing.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

I have to disagree. I have 2 friends who quit because they couldn’t stomach the late odds changes and the lower payoffs in general. I’ve also bet less this year than any this decade after a resurgence the previous few years.

The smaller fields, late odds changes, generally sharper money, and more widespread quality of information due to the internet have all made the game WAY more difficult than it was years ago.

People may think I'm crazy, but imo the loss of NYCOTB also made the game a little tougher.

That was some of the dumbest money in the pools. Believe me I know. I saw it almost every day. All of it was not recovered by phone and internet wagering. Old retirees and neighborhood guys used to turn those NYCOTBs into local social clubs. Some of them handled quite a bit of money daily. When they closed, lots of those guys stopped betting or at least dramatically reduced their handle. There are way fewer fish in the ocean.

I saw the same thing in poker years ago. At the peak there was an endless supply of bad players. After awhile, the pretty good players got better and the big losers began to leave. Even the lower limit games got a lot tougher.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

I have to disagree. I have 2 friends who quit because they couldn’t stomach the late odds changes and the lower payoffs in general. I’ve also bet less this year than any this decade after a resurgence the previous few years.

I understand the odds change frustration and that is certainly a big issue. With the bulk of the betting going to the blind pools the frustration would have to be with the actual payoffs. Usually when short payoffs are pointed out to a winner the response back is usually, "How much did you cash for?" The odds drops on win odds is in your face but the payoffs on exotics usually don't take much of a toll because most people can't figure out what they should have gotten.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Woodlands Kansas City KS shuttered many years ago

Blue Ribbons Downs, OK
Pinnacle Race Course, MI
Free State Raceway, MD
Trinity Meadows, TX

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by Sea Hero

The problem is very simple. The smart bettors are sucking the money away from the for-fun players way too quickly. The money heads that way eventually in any case ... but it isn't lasting long enough to entertain the for-fun players. So they go to casinos or poker or wherever else.

Nothing could be more concise and on-target than the above.


Racing's eternal answer to combat that clear reality has always been to do even more for the smart bettors to racing's own detriment.


The simple solution is to do the opposite, for the first time ever, because you can...


(but you still should've done it thirty years ago).


Belinda Stronach is but a microcosm for the whole of horse racing management. Present her with a minimal problem with a simple solution and she will go to great lengths to somehow believe she is solving that minimal problem by broadcasting solutions to entirely unrelated concerns.

In the meanwhile, because of Belinda's (and racing management's collective) ineptitude, these oft-presented solutions serve only to exacerbate the orginal, simple problem.

Concisely: If you're going to compete with casinos and other forms of gambling, you must always play to your strengths and not to your weaknesses.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Just give on-track bettors a 3% rebate on all bets.....Track Club Cards already exist.

Yes! And a wide local marketing campaign with billboards saying:


"Bring yourself and the kids to Podunk Downs, pay our $6 admission fee plus $4 for parking, (and bet the usual $60 newcomers might serve up on a typical race card (before they tap-out on the 5th race)) and we'll give you $1.80 right then and there!"

*you're free to spend your $1.80 anywhere you so choose. it goes right into your hands, no (additional) strings attached.


Yep, that'll bring'em in and save the entire industry.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Everybody who bets makes a contribution. Do you think that it is only people at the track who see their odds drop on the last click? The 90% of the money bet off-track is not all bet by arbitragers.

Clearly you believe that the people who bet at the track are either victims or incapable of looking out for themselves. A smart bettor at the track would find a way to use technology to make last second bets if required. Compensate the track goers with bobble-heads and beach towels.

Online players have the technology to make their bets at the last moment.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

Yes! And a wide local marketing campaign with billboards saying:


"Bring yourself and the kids to Podunk Downs, pay our $6 admission fee plus $4 for parking, (and bet the usual $60 newcomers might serve up on a typical race card (before they tap-out on the 5th race)) and we'll give you $1.80 right then and there!"

*you're free to spend your $1.80 anywhere you so choose. it goes right into your hands, no (additional) strings attached.


Yep, that'll bring'em in and save the entire industry.

Don't forget the $22 for two Daily Racing Forms -- one for mom and one for dad.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

Yes! And a wide local marketing campaign with billboards saying:


"Bring yourself and the kids to Podunk Downs, pay our $6 admission fee plus $4 for parking, (and bet the usual $60 newcomers might serve up on a typical race card (before they tap-out on the 5th race)) and we'll give you $1.80 right then and there!"

*you're free to spend your $1.80 anywhere you so choose. it goes right into your hands, no (additional) strings attached.


Yep, that'll bring'em in and save the entire industry.

You're such a gem, such brilliant insight.....Post more often, please.

[Rico8812]

Originally Posted by highnote

Don't forget the $22 for two Daily Racing Forms -- one for mom and one for dad.

I laughed

[elhelmete]

I had to laugh recently...my childhood home track, Suffolk Downs, closed, As far as I can recall, they never charged for parking in my lifetime.

Encore Boston, the casino that got the license that rang the death knell for Suffolk, charges between $22 (6 hours) and $42 (overnight) for parking.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

I had to laugh recently...my childhood home track, Suffolk Downs, closed, As far as I can recall, they never charged for parking in my lifetime.

Encore Boston, the casino that got the license that rang the death knell for Suffolk, charges between $22 (6 hours) and $42 (overnight) for parking.

Now that's some funny CRAP right there....Points+...

[Jayhawk6191]

Why do the people who support the current system of letting the computer players game the system qualify their remarks with the caveat, "I know it doesn't look good."?


That's the same thing people said about Bernie Madoff

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

Yes! And a wide local marketing campaign with billboards saying:


"Bring yourself and the kids to Podunk Downs, pay our $6 admission fee plus $4 for parking, (and bet the usual $60 newcomers might serve up on a typical race card (before they tap-out on the 5th race)) and we'll give you $1.80 right then and there!"

*you're free to spend your $1.80 anywhere you so choose. it goes right into your hands, no (additional) strings attached.


Yep, that'll bring'em in and save the entire industry.

If you are talking about saving the industry, the only thing that has any chance of long term success is changing the economics enough so that tracks have the financial ability to lower the take enough to be competitive with poker, sports, and casinos. That might attract new money.

Tweaking the take at the margin is a nonsensical fantasy that won't work. It may increase handle and churn for the track that tries it, but it will do very little for overall track bottom lines or to attract major new inflows of cash at the industry level.

To accomplish what they need to at least try, there has to be WAY fewer tracks. Then the same (or similar) handle will be divided up by way fewer tracks and expand the profit margin for those still around. That will generate the free cash flow they need to lower the take and make other investments that will help spur growth. But even this is probably a fantasy in the short term because the politics of it are brain damaged.