The Belmont-Fallout Begins

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Pity...I enjoyed our online interaction.

But I guess all good things must come to an end...

Iceknight is going to have to take my place.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Probably because you have been pontificating about the same thing for weeks now. We all know your stance, you feel disenchanted, cheated, robbed from and you're mad as hell. Every person who was financially hurt by the NYRA takeout situation had some combination (if not all) of the same emotions you did. The difference is that most people have recognized the attempt made to rectify the situation and opt to concentrate on what will happen going forward. You strike me as the type of person that has a REALLY hard time letting things go.

Have I ever stated to you that I am more informed than you, smarter than you, or have access to superior information? No.

You have now turned this into becoming the spokesperson for the victims who are bullied for offering their opinion. You seem to have appointed yourself as Robert Goren's spokesperson. His posts are the definition of boorish and uninformed. He basically admitted so much in agreeing that he occasionally "just posts to push buttons." The fact that you have taken up the support role on his behalf when he kicked off his participation in this thread with a ridiculous non-sequitur is comical. He brought up "NYRA apologists" in the midst of a thread that A) had no mention of NYRA whatsoever and B) did not concern NYRA, but the NY Racing and Wagering Board.

This is the first time I have even replied to you after one of your patented soliloquies, but I appreciate you lumping me into the people who are the "them" in your theoretical "us vs. them" showdown.

No...I don't have a hard time letting things go...nor have I been "pontificating about the same thing for weeks now".

In fact...I haven't made a critical NYRA-referencing post in three weeks.

Nor am I defending Robert Goren. I, myself, was called uninformed during our NYRA arguments...and I was just wondering how "better" informed those who called me "uninformed" really were.

And this is not the first time that you have replied to one of my "patented soliliquies"...

You and I have previously interacted in the NYRA threads...and your replies were as predictable as mine.

[Meunuco]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Iceknight is going to have to take my place.

Well, he does have that informative blog. Just a click away.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

My comments were to Goren. The guy who admits he posts for a reaction. I'm confident I'm more informed than he is.

I tired of your nonsense awhile ago and am not real interested in going back and forth with you. We disagree about this and a ton of other things. I'm okay with it. You should be too.

Your students need you. Stop wasting so much time in off topic and with nobodies like me and get teaching.

I am not. So far the only thing you showed me is that you know how pick winners. You certainly weren't more informed than me when a while back you denied that NYRA had taken steps to help with all the breakdowns they were having during the winter meet when in fact they had made some very well publicised steps of changes purses and claiming prices for bottom level races as well as moving back to the main track early.

[burnsy]

wow, its a slugfest here. being kind of independant of NYRA even though i live in NY and bet mostly NYRA tracks. i could care less who ran it as long as its always good. its like people have been saying, they do good things racing wise but there are other things they have screwed up too. that detention barn has been garbage since day 1. thats why no one else does it. if you know anything about horses at all.....you can figure out its a loser, especially in the summer when its hot. the trainers all operate on a "routine" because horses are creatures of habit. some of them respond negatively to changes....a race can be pissed away hours before they hit the track. thats why the trainers hate this. people think this is great and stops them from cheating but throwing your money away on a horse that never had a shot because it was "spent" is worse and it was happening many times. way more times then people get caught cheating. i can't say what he did is right...he probably just shot himself in the foot. but he has that right...so let it be. i kind of admire the guy for the size of his "you know whats" because in this day and age everyone is guilty of everything....this goes beyond horse racing. we are becoming some sort of police state where we lose our rights because a few percent can't follow the rules....to me thats a weak excuse for people that are lazy and complacent. honorable people don't need authorities up their ass 24/7. thats what we've become and NYRA has transferred some of this to horse racing. someone has to say something or this will be 1984 or china...thats where its all going and most bend over a take it. there will always be a few that say something or do something....and thats a good thing because we are free to do so. when everyone cow tows to authority this country will be doomed. the guy probably just hurt his business but there are bigger things. let the folks train their horses the way they want, race day is one of the most important steps....test them for drugs to keep it clean...because these horsey "prisons" are not helping the bettor one bit .......anyway, its worse than cheating.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by burnsy

wow, its a slugfest here. being kind of independant of NYRA even though i live in NY and bet mostly NYRA tracks. i could care less who ran it as long as its always good. its like people have been saying, they do good things racing wise but there are other things they have screwed up too. that detention barn has been garbage since day 1. thats why no one else does it. if you know anything about horses at all.....you can figure out its a loser, especially in the summer when its hot. the trainers all operate on a "routine" because horses are creatures of habit. some of them respond negatively to changes....a race can be pissed away hours before they hit the track. thats why the trainers hate this. people think this is great and stops them from cheating but throwing your money away on a horse that never had a shot because it was "spent" is worse and it was happening many times. way more times then people get caught cheating. i can't say what he did is right...he probably just shot himself in the foot. but he has that right...so let it be. i kind of admire the guy for the size of his "you know whats" because in this day and age everyone is guilty of everything....this goes beyond horse racing. we are becoming some sort of police state where we lose our rights because a few percent can't follow the rules....to me thats a weak excuse for people that are lazy and complacent. honorable people don't need authorities up their ass 24/7. thats what we've become and NYRA has transferred some of this to horse racing. someone has to say something or this will be 1984 or china...thats where its all going and most bend over a take it. there will always be a few that say something or do something....and thats a good thing because we are free to do so. when everyone cow tows to authority this country will be doomed. the guy probably just hurt his business but there are bigger things. let the folks train their horses the way they want, race day is one of the most important steps....test them for drugs to keep it clean...because these horsey "prisons" are not helping the bettor one bit .......anyway, its worse than cheating.

Seriously, I find myself not reading your replies because they are in fact unreadable.

Don't you have an "ENTER" key on your keyboard?

[Bullet Plane]

I don't know burnsy, but he has some of the best posts on the board. He can be hard to read, however with all of the text jumbled up.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by burnsy

wow, its a slugfest here. being kind of independant of NYRA even though i live in NY and bet mostly NYRA tracks. i could care less who ran it as long as its always good.

its like people have been saying, they do good things racing wise but there are other things they have screwed up too. that detention barn has been garbage since day 1. thats why no one else does it.


if you know anything about horses at all.....you can figure out its a loser, especially in the summer when its hot. the trainers all operate on a "routine" because horses are creatures of habit. some of them respond negatively to changes....a race can be pissed away hours before they hit the track.

thats why the trainers hate this. people think this is great and stops them from cheating but throwing your money away on a horse that never had a shot because it was "spent" is worse and it was happening many times. way more times then people get caught cheating. i can't say what he did is right...he probably just shot himself in the foot.


but he has that right...so let it be. i kind of admire the guy for the size of his "you know whats" because in this day and age everyone is guilty of everything....this goes beyond horse racing. we are becoming some sort of police state where we lose our rights because a few percent can't follow the rules....to me thats a weak excuse for people that are lazy and complacent.


honorable people don't need authorities up their ass 24/7. thats what we've become and NYRA has transferred some of this to horse racing. someone has to say something or this will be 1984 or china...thats where its all going and most bend over a take it. there will always be a few that say something or do something....and thats a good thing because we are free to do so.


when everyone cow tows to authority this country will be doomed. the guy probably just hurt his business but there are bigger things. let the folks train their horses the way they want, race day is one of the most important steps....test them for drugs to keep it clean...because these horsey "prisons" are not helping the bettor one bit .......anyway, its worse than cheating.

There, I hit enter without context.

[Linny]

Jones trained the HOY for last year. The filly earned the honor in part because of a fine showing at Saratoga. In previous years Jones has brought horses like Hard Spun, Kodiak Kowboy and others to Saratoga.
During those years, he had NOT had stalls at the Spa, he has shipped in to either the stakes barn, or a space in another barn.

It would appear that NYRA offered him stalls at their most oversubscribed meet based on his having a good record with nice horses at the meet. No where in the article do I read that Jones is speaking on behalf of anyone but himself. He is not a "spokesman for the horsemen." He is not the only horseman who had issues with NY regulators (not NYRA management directly) telling trainers what they may feed and when and other such minutiae about training horses. Dale Romans and Michael Matz were not particularly pleased with events in the run-up to the Belmont. I would daresay that Matz, Romans and Jones know a helluva lot more about preparing a horse to race than anyone on the Racing and Wagering Board.

I'm guessing that Romans will want stalls, so he won't complain as much, at least not to Grening. Matz has high society clients and will get stalls if he wants and he's usually pretty reticent. Jones is in the position to speak out because he's never had stalls before and it's not like NYRA is going to reject the nomination of the KY Oaks winner to the CCAO or the Alabama.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I am not.

You're probably the only person on this board that thinks this.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by Linny

Jones trained the HOY for last year. The filly earned the honor in part because of a fine showing at Saratoga. In previous years Jones has brought horses like Hard Spun, Kodiak Kowboy and others to Saratoga.
During those years, he had NOT had stalls at the Spa, he has shipped in to either the stakes barn, or a space in another barn.

It would appear that NYRA offered him stalls at their most oversubscribed meet based on his having a good record with nice horses at the meet. No where in the article do I read that Jones is speaking on behalf of anyone but himself. He is not a "spokesman for the horsemen." He is not the only horseman who had issues with NY regulators (not NYRA management directly) telling trainers what they may feed and when and other such minutiae about training horses. Dale Romans and Michael Matz were not particularly pleased with events in the run-up to the Belmont. I would daresay that Matz, Romans and Jones know a helluva lot more about preparing a horse to race than anyone on the Racing and Wagering Board.

I'm guessing that Romans will want stalls, so he won't complain as much, at least not to Grening. Matz has high society clients and will get stalls if he wants and he's usually pretty reticent. Jones is in the position to speak out because he's never had stalls before and it's not like NYRA is going to reject the nomination of the KY Oaks winner to the CCAO or the Alabama.

6/22 this paragraph from Paulick Report



According to Jones, his reason for turning down the stalls is that he could not believe that the New York stewards tried to keep trainer Doug O'Neill from cooking oats for Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner I'll Have Another. The primary reason for cooking oats is to help with digestion.

Really looks like it's about horse feed and care and honestly ,he is entitled to his opinion and handling of the situation.
He said he would ship in and that it was nothing like a boycott.
He really is a nice guy . If you see him at the track , he is approachable and
friendly.

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Seriously, I find myself not reading your replies because they are in fact unreadable.

Don't you have an "ENTER" key on your keyboard?

These are the best kind of posts.

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The comparision is not to Ruidoso. The comparision is NY racing today to NY racing of 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 40-50 years ago. Although others may not agree, I think they were putting out a much stronger product in the past. When you are the best, you don't measure yourself against a third rate track, You measure yourself against yourself.

You obviously weren't around during the Gerry McKeon years.....the NYRA immediately before Crist and Kenny Noe got there was not better than it is today.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Cardus

These are the best kind of posts.

Stellar contribution once again Cardus...

[Saratoga_Mike]

Jones does appears to be a quality guy, but he should be a little more careful who he defends. If Graham Motion was questioned about cooked oats, Jones would have a point. But given Mr. O'Neil's history, I'd even inspect the hay before it was allowed in the barn.