What caused thread about NYRA in General Racing to be closed?

[Wagergirl]

Originally Posted by BlueShoe

So now we are debating the debating of the closure of a thread. We do get creative from time to time over here.

Well.. it has been a thread bare day.....

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Wagergirl

Well.. it has been a thread bare day.....

[pktruckdriver]

Love this place, go NYRA, my opinion great call on Cancellation today, Safety First, no matter the cost.

This to me is the right call everytime.

Yet how many summer days are above 90 degrees, and with a little bit of humidity, hope they do not cancell summer racing, that's all.


Patrick

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i can assure you that the person who made the call to cancel was well aware of the revenue which would be lost.

of course its not a trivial matter, but neither is the well being of the animals and riders or the risk of running and having an ugly heat related incident.

I'm pretty sure they will add an extra race on 9 programs to make-up the wagering shortfall.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I guess I am missing the point.

It cost me money today, so obviously I wanted them to run.

I am actually curious about this. Could you explain a little bit more? Do you just mean "potential lost income"?

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by iceknight

I am actually curious about this. Could you explain a little bit more? Do you just mean "potential lost income"?

The only thing pertinent to the thread is that although the cancellation was unfavorable, I understand the reality of the safety and political issues.

[highnote]

I have a couple of questions I would like answered because cancelation due to heat is not just a nyra issue.

1.) When is it too hot for a horse to race -- 92 degrees, 98 degrees, higher?

2.) If everyone knows it is going to be hot tomorrow and a cancelation is possible then how much advance notice should people be given?

Personally, I have no problem with nyra canceling. They did what they thought was the right thing to do. There are plenty of other tracks to bet.

The other point I wanted to make was it was very hot on the Belmont Stakes card on June 5, 2004. (At least I think that is the right one). According to my memory and a chart of the daily temperatures that day, the temperature was well above 90 in NYC but the races still took place. Maybe it was cooler on Long Island?

So was it too hot to race June 5, 2004 at Belmont, but the races allowed to be run because it was Belmont Stakes day? Or maybe it wasn't hot enough to cancel the Belmont card on the day Smarty Jones was racing? Those seem like valid questions.

If the heat wave lasted a week during Saratoga with temperatures approacing 100 everyday would they cancel everyday? Or maybe they don't have to cancel because horses get acclimated to the temperature?

I am not pointing fingers or complaining. As a handicapper I'd just like to know the answers to these questions.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn

I have a couple of questions I would like answered because cancelation due to heat is not just a nyra issue.

1.) When is it too hot for a horse to race -- 92 degrees, 98 degrees, higher?

2.) If everyone knows it is going to be hot tomorrow and a cancelation is possible then how much advance notice should people be given?

Personally, I have no problem with nyra canceling. They did what they thought was the right thing to do. There are plenty of other tracks to bet.

The other point I wanted to make was it was very hot on the Belmont Stakes card on June 5, 2004. (At least I think that is the right one). According to my memory and a chart of the daily temperatures that day, the temperature was well above 90 in NYC but the races still took place. Maybe it was cooler on Long Island?

So was it too hot to race June 5, 2004 at Belmont, but the races allowed to be run because it was Belmont Stakes day? Or maybe it wasn't hot enough to cancel the Belmont card on the day Smarty Jones was racing? Those seem like valid questions.

If the heat wave lasted a week during Saratoga with temperatures approacing 100 everyday would they cancel everyday? Or maybe they don't have to cancel because horses get acclimated to the temperature?

I am not pointing fingers or complaining. As a handicapper I'd just like to know the answers to these questions.

So now you want to discuss the cancellation? I thought you didn't want to?

The answers to your disingenuous questions (and thread) should be pretty obvious. There isn't a set temperature to cancel. You shouldn't be given any warning by anyone. It's pretty rare they happen.

Everyday is different. Like when races are taken off grass, or cancelled due to rain, snow, etc. there isn't a set in stone criteria. It's discretionary and based on reacting to the conditions.

[Cardus]

Some of the posts in that closed thread are... not surprising at all.

[tzipi]

I love people who proably cant even run around a track, who sit in their AC all day on their couch getting mad NYRA for looking out for the horses and jockeys in near 100 degree heat.

Wanted to write that in the general thread to a certain person but the thread closed. Oh well.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

So now you want to discuss the cancellation? I thought you didn't want to?

Again, if you would read my post more closely you would understand that what I said was that I did not want to discuss the nyra cancellation anymore today because that thread was closed and I didn't want to piss off the boss.

But I was not finished discussing cancelations in general. And really, this thread should have been moved back to general racing.

In any event, I still have some questions about cancelation policies. And if they can't be answered on PaceAdvantage then I don't know where else to ask them.

I admit I did mention the 2004 belmont stakes and nyra -- but only because that day was extremely hot, too, and wasn't canceled. Which lead me to thinking about cancelations in general.

The answers to your disingenuous questions (and thread) should be pretty obvious.

How is knowing when a race will be canceled obvious? I've seen it snow like hell and races still happen. I've seen it hot as hell and races still happen.

How hot is too hot for a horse to race? What is so disingenuous about that question?

There isn't a set temperature to cancel.

That is interesting. See, I had never given a lot of thought about how horses perform in the heat. I've seen plenty of horses sweating in the paddock on brutally hot days, but I can't recall a card being canceled because of temperature. But I'm sure it must happen.

You shouldn't be given any warning by anyone.

Why not? Why not post an advisory on the track website saying that "Racing may be canceled today or tomorrow due to extreme heat. Please check the website before heading off to the track."

It's pretty rare they happen.

Everyday is different. Like when races are taken off grass, or cancelled due to rain, snow, etc. there isn't a set in stone criteria. It's discretionary and based on reacting to the conditions.

That makes sense.

So it sounds to me that what your saying is that no one really knows the exact temperature that it is unsafe for a horse to race. Someone or some group of people simply walk outside to see what the temperature feels like and then declares, "It's too hot today. Races are canceled."

Is there any scientific measurement taken of temperature and humidity on which they base their decision? I have never owned a horse. Maybe horses can handle more heat than humans -- or maybe they don't handle the heat as well? That's an interesting question to me.

Horses come from the desert, but race horses have been bred to race over the past few centuries. Maybe they have lost their ability to handle the heat?

There are a lot of interesting questions. But some of the answers are different than what I expected. I thought for sure someone would know that a horse should not be exercised when the temperature exceeds, say, 95 degrees.

I think about my grandfather's old work horse he owned back in the 1920s. I wish he was alive so I could ask him if he still hitched her up when it was blazing hot out. I bet the Amish would know.

[Robert Goren]

I thought the thread had a ways to go yet. I wanted an answer to whether they would cancel on Belmont Stakes day if the weather was the same because of horse safety. I guess I never get an answer to that question now.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I thought the thread had a ways to go yet. I wanted an answer to whether they would cancel on Belmont Stakes day if the weather was the same because of horse safety. I guess I never get an answer to that question now.

It's a good topic. I think there are a lot of nyra supporters here who don't like to see bad things in print about nyra. And that's fine. I understand that. Nyra puts on a good show and some people's livelihood probably depends to some extent on nyra.

But I also think that your question is a good one and a relevant one that should be addressed, but maybe now is not the time or place. Like I said -- don't want to piss off the boss.

That said, I can see nyra canceling the belmont stakes card due to severe heat and moving it to Sunday or even mid-week if there was a prolonged heat wave. They could also move it to the morning. Hell, they could probably rent temporary lights and run it at night.

I think they would put safety first, but I think that the temperature might have to get a couple degrees higher than it would otherwise have to get on a normal day before they would cancel. But that is just speculation.

The only way to know is to make note of the temperature today and wait for a hot belmont stakes day.

I'd also think they could hose the horses down immediately before and after to cool them off. But maybe that isn't good for a horse? I don't know. There are a lot of things I still don't know about racing, but I'm trying to learn.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

Love this place, go NYRA, my opinion great call on Cancellation today, Safety First, no matter the cost.

This to me is the right call everytime.

Yet how many summer days are above 90 degrees, and with a little bit of humidity, hope they do not cancell summer racing, that's all.


Patrick

It was 100 degrees today on certain spots here on Long Island.

There should be no debate. Anyone with a pulse and a brain should agree it was the right thing to do.

[PaceAdvantage]

Every historical weather site I have visited has put the temperature on June 5, 2004 not much above 70 degrees....I don't remember the day too well weather-wise at this point...lol