FRANKEL !!!!!

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by iceknight

Well here is a simple fact. Frankel won the last race is very good, reliably measured time, unlike Secretariat, whose Preakness win time had to be "approved" similar to some elections that are approved by the Court. Hope this gives all you guys who complain about every winning racehorse's performance as "not so great, won against weak" etc something to truly wonder about and to your list. How can they EAT off 2/5th of a second. hell if they really wanted to honor him that much, just call it 1 min even. What a SHAM!!

.. And if that is not enough, let me add more controversy here. Guess what? Here's a challenge for all you Monday morning QB's imo Seattle Slew (unbeaten TC winner) > Secretariat. Convince me otherwise.

I hate to even acknowledge a post this moronic, but people have been saying that the timer malfunctioned since the day of the Preakness in 1973. Just because you don't know racing history and/or can't use a stopwatch is a weak excuse for not correcting a historical error.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

In case you are unaware of this, the goal of any horse's connections SHOULD BE to place their horses on the appropriate surface, at the appropriate distance, at the appropriate class level, and with sufficient rest so that they remain sound, healthy, and sharp enough to maximize their earnings potential and value.

The goal is to not satisfy a bunch of whiny fans that want to see horses shipped all over the place, running at distances they are probably not suited for, on surfaces they might not handle, against opposition they are not ready for, or so often they burn out, just so fans can see what would happen.

That's how horses are ruined and forced into premature retirement.

You do things wisely!

This horse hasn't avoided anyone. He has repeatedly faced the best Group 1 competition available at home at a mile and is now ready to stretch out and see if 10F is within his range.

He's been handled BRILLIANTLY. If you can't se that, I can't help you.

He's been handled like a horse with severe limitations. He's midway through his 4yo year and has yet to run past 1 mile. Black Caviar comes in from Australia and they claim they can't back up 1 furlong to take her on. Going to run longer? Then get on with it then instead of running 1 mile on Tuesday but being incapable of switching it up and running 7f on Saturday. And leave your stablemate helper in the barn.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

In case you are unaware of this, the goal of any horse's connections SHOULD BE to place their horses on the appropriate surface, at the appropriate distance, at the appropriate class level, and with sufficient rest so that they remain sound, healthy, and sharp enough to maximize their earnings potential and value.

Sounds like a good blueprint for handling claiming horses. A blue-blooded, champion racehorse would ideally be campaigned progressively, pointing for specific races that determine whether he has all the tools necessary to be an ideal breeding animal. Speed, class, stamina, heart. Since the 2000 Guineas, Frankel has been basically coddled.

The goal is to not satisfy a bunch of whiny fans that want to see horses shipped all over the place, running at distances they are probably not suited for, on surfaces they might not handle, against opposition they are not ready for, or so often they burn out, just so fans can see what would happen.

Yeah. Starting in races like the Epsom Derby, the Eclipse, the King George, and the Arc have ruined many a horse.

The connections of Refuse To Bend, Dubai Millenium, Dancing Brave, etc all flamed their charges out by asking them to follow the traditional course of a champion.

That's how horses are ruined and forced into premature retirement.

That's funny, because Frankel was nearly retired before even making it to his 4yo debut.

This horse hasn't avoided anyone. He has repeatedly faced the best Group 1 competition available at home at a mile and is now ready to stretch out and see if 10F is within his range.

He won't stretch out unless he catches a small field with a couple of pacesetters and a perhaps a second string Coolmore (eg Treasure Beach) and the odd stablemate or two (eg Twice Over, Famous Name).

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Stop being a douche. It gets old.

Asking for an explanation to the meaning of a given post, or a sentence within it, is an everyday occurrence here, and everywhere across the Internet.

My question is not different from anyone else who asks, "What do you mean by that?"

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I hate to even acknowledge a post this moronic, but people have been saying that the timer malfunctioned since the day of the Preakness in 1973. Just because you don't know racing history and/or can't use a stopwatch is a weak excuse for not correcting a historical error.

I am well aware of the history. But they should stick to the DRF timer than *making* up stuff "claiming modern technology"... 1:53 2/5ths should be the right one.

[Humph]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

He's been handled like a horse with severe limitations. He's midway through his 4yo year and has yet to run past 1 mile. Black Caviar comes in from Australia and they claim they can't back up 1 furlong to take her on. Going to run longer? Then get on with it then instead of running 1 mile on Tuesday but being incapable of switching it up and running 7f on Saturday. And leave your stablemate helper in the barn.

The Jubilee , Black Caviar's intended target , is run over 6 , not 7 . And the chances of Henry Cecil pulling any miler of his back to 6f are nil . Anyone who knows anything about the man will be all too aware of this - he just doesn't do sprints.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

He won't stretch out unless he catches a small field with a couple of pacesetters and a perhaps a second string Coolmore (eg Treasure Beach) and the odd stablemate or two (eg Twice Over, Famous Name).

You know this for a fact, do you?

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by RXB

You know this for a fact, do you?

No. It's a prediction of the outcome of an event taking place in the near future.

Who knew that something like that would be taboo on a message board devoted to horse racing?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Humph

The Jubilee , Black Caviar's intended target , is run over 6 , not 7 . And the chances of Henry Cecil pulling any miler of his back to 6f are nil . Anyone who knows anything about the man will be all too aware of this - he just doesn't do sprints.

They would've created a race or changed the race conditions for these two to match up. Whether I know Cecil or not, it smacks of avoidance of the big mare. And it reinforces that this horse has severe distance limitations that his range thus far is 1 furlong.

[gm10]

The unbeaten Frankel increased his Timeform rating to an unparalleled 147 with a scintillating victory in the Queen Anne Stakes on day one of Royal Ascot 2012. Simon Rowlands explains the historical significance and some of the processes involved.

http://betting.betfair.com/horse-rac...200612-43.html

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Sounds like a good blueprint for handling claiming horses. A blue-blooded, champion racehorse would ideally be campaigned progressively, pointing for specific races that determine whether he has all the tools necessary to be an ideal breeding animal. Speed, class, stamina, heart. Since the 2000 Guineas, Frankel has been basically coddled.


Yeah. Starting in races like the Epsom Derby, the Eclipse, the King George, and the Arc have ruined many a horse.

The connections of Refuse To Bend, Dubai Millenium, Dancing Brave, etc all flamed their charges out by asking them to follow the traditional course of a champion.


That's funny, because Frankel was nearly retired before even making it to his 4yo debut.


He won't stretch out unless he catches a small field with a couple of pacesetters and a perhaps a second string Coolmore (eg Treasure Beach) and the odd stablemate or two (eg Twice Over, Famous Name).

Why is it so hard to understand that the connections of this horse felt that he was a 7F/Miler early in his career and there were plenty of great opportunities for a horse like that at home?

Shipping only makes sense when there are no Group 1 opportunities in your own division at home, if you are trying to avoid someone else you think you can't beat, or there are much greater financial rewards in that division somewhere else.

Stretching horses out only makes sense when you think it's within the horse's range at that time (which they are ready to do now).

Putting horses "where they don't belong" is what ruins them.

At the peak of racing the US, horses like Forego never shipped because there was a great series of Grade 1 races for older horses in NY. If you thought you had a better horse you had to come to HIM.

Do me a favor, never get into the business of managing top horses.

They have an undefeated horse that's probably worth 50 million dollars with the highest Timeform rating in history that's generating so much buzz he's even known in the US by casual racing fans and there's still a full season to go and you think they are screwing up. lmao

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

He's been handled like a horse with severe limitations. He's midway through his 4yo year and has yet to run past 1 mile. Black Caviar comes in from Australia and they claim they can't back up 1 furlong to take her on. Going to run longer? Then get on with it then instead of running 1 mile on Tuesday but being incapable of switching it up and running 7f on Saturday. And leave your stablemate helper in the barn.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

He's been handled like a horse that's a miler. I just don't see the crime in saying a horse is an all time great MILER. Goldikova wasn't asked to be more than she was.

Since the goal is to stretch to 10F this year, it makes no sense to face Black Caviar at 7F now and put speed back into him.

They gave him two races at a mile this year to prepare him to stretch out and now they are ready to try 10F. PERFECT HANDLING. Ih he fails, you'll probably never see him at 10F again because that would be the intelligent thing to do.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not disagreeing with you.

He's been handled like a horse that's a miler. I just don't see the crime in saying a horse is an all time great MILER. Goldikova wasn't asked to be more than she was.

Since the goal is to stretch to 10F this year, it makes no sense to face Black Caviar at 7F now and put speed back into him.

They gave him two races at a mile this year to prepare him to stretch out and now they are ready to try 10F. PERFECT HANDLING. Ih he fails, you'll probably never see him at 10F again because that would be the intelligent thing to do.

He is a great miler. But being a great miler isn't as good as being great going longer because longer is more difficult. That's true both here and abroad.

It'll be interesting to see if he can go longer. We have horses who can win top 10f races as they've matured into an older that they weren't able to earlier, but I can't think of any who didn't attempt the longer distances earlier. Congaree and Came Home, for examples. They seem to be trying to train distance into this horse. I feel better about this trainer's training methods, but we saw the complete collapse of Quality Road when Pletcher tried training a natural miler into being something he wasn't.

I don't see an issue with cutting back to 7f then stretching out. Hard Spun did it, didn't he? Yet Hard Spun isn't the top-rated horse ever.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by iceknight

I am well aware of the history. But they should stick to the DRF timer than *making* up stuff "claiming modern technology"... 1:53 2/5ths should be the right one.

What was the run up in the 1973 Preakness the DRF clockers hit the toggle as soon as the gate popped. Now if we factor in the run up could that account for the 2/5's?

On topic Frankel... Here's hoping the come over for the BC.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Do me a favor, never get into the business of managing top horses.

They have an undefeated horse that's probably worth 50 million dollars with the highest Timeform rating in history that's generating so much buzz he's even known in the US by casual racing fans and there's still a full season to go and you think they are screwing up. lmao

By your relatively polite standards, this is downright bellicosity.

I (along with countless others) would love to see him meet So You Think in the Eclipse but the plan for the year was the Sussex next, followed by the Juddmonte Int'l. I'm hoping that after Tuesday's tour de force, the owner & trainer realize that it is truly pointless at this stage to race him again at a mile.