Probe of NYRA execs may be launched - NYRA may lose slots subsidies

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

• As an industry leader, I would like to see NYRA experiment with lower takeout rates for 3 and 4 horse bets.

My belief is that 24 percent takeout for 3 and 4 horse bets is too high. Conversely, I would argue that NYRA’s exacta takeout rate at 18.5% puts the NYRA product at the top of the list (among all North American tracks) in terms of value for handle dollars spent by the player.

What’s the optimal rate for 3 and 4 horse bets? I’m not smart enough to know that (and I doubt if anybody else out there “knows” with any certainty a hard answer to that question either.)

Why not try to find it (the optimal rate) the way Peter Berube at Tampa Bay Downs did? Drop it 1%, evaluate it over the course of an entire year, and revisit it afterwards? I’ll make an educated guess that if NYRA lowered their takeout rate for 3 and 4 horse bets to 23% and evaluated it over the course of a year they would see good results. At that point, provided the results were good, the rate could be lowered by 1% again. Make it 22% for the following year - and then evaluate it afterwards.

The optimal rate doesn’t happen overnight – but doing it this way – incrementally - is a very simple way to move towards the optimal rate - without taking on too much risk. The result is that the product becomes more optimally priced than it is being priced now – and that has to be a good thing. I would further argue that years of pricing the product in a way that is clearly not optimal has resulted in NYRA (and the State of New York) leaving a significant amount of money on the table.

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With all due respect, why is the push for lower takeout always aimed at horizontal wagers when they represent only a minor portion of the handle? Does your organization not represent the majority of horseplayers that obviously don't play these wagers? Just curious as I've never seen this question asked.

[OTM Al]

Back to the topic at hand, screwing over Genting was just a matter of time

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...hts-for-tracks

Screw around for 10 years to get the place up and running and you jack the casino firm within the first year of business. Anyone still think this is going to be an improvement for racing?

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

First off, I'm not a racing official. I work at New York University. So you are dead wrong on that.

Second, I play as much as my means allow. I'm no big timer to be sure, but it is something I enjoy.

Third, you don't understand the argument made at all. I also have a strong background in economics. I can tell you right now that several people on this board still claim that the takeout issue allowed NYRA to make 8.5 million dollars. I'm telling you right now that statement is exactly equivalent to saying a 26% takeout rate is too low (or at least closer to optimum than 25%)

Fourth, you also didn't seem to listen to the part repeated ad nauseum that the franchise agreement between NYRA and the State, pretty much a useless document now, specified that a fixed percentage had to go to purses. Did you want them to violate that one too?

Fifth, Steve Crist is a very good person. But despite what you think, the man is not a journalist, he is a writer. I know it's hard for people to distinguish between the two for most. He is also in the position of knowing what it takes to deal with State oversight in New York. I reserve all judgement on his actions until the full story comes out. Frankly though, I expect the full story to be buried.

Finally, I don't expect you to know how running the business works and the complexity of relationships involved. That's why those of us that do know a little bit about it try to tell the things we can. And when we do that we get labelled just as you have labelled me.

So it's nice that you pursued it a little further, because now you've shown how little you know or even bothered to pay attention to about me or the situation in general.

I'll take this "off-topic" for a moment.

He is a writer who writes for a newspaper. This makes him a journalist on a day-to-day basis, as opposed to other types of writers, like novelists, for instance.

What type of journalist is he? He is a columnist, who publishes his opinions. This differentiates him from those who report the daily news of the sport, like reporter Dave Grening. (From time to time, though, columnists "break the news" within their columns.)

When you say that Crist is "a writer", do you mean that he is a columnist, as opposed to a reporter?

[Tom]

“I believe it should be an open competition where we get the best companies and we get the best deal to the taxpayers that we can get,’’ Cuomo said of any future casino developments.

One of the links I posted about NY scandals deals with NYS officials being involved in violating laws about taking bribes for similar decisions....all to funnel money towards him and his cronies. In fact, the first link.

Dejas vous all over again.

Too bad Fence Plank only considers things that fit his agenda.

[Tom]

When you say that Crist is "a writer", do you mean that he is a columnist, as opposed to a reporter?

Well, he used to write for the Times, who we all know has a history of playing loose with the truth.

From your own conclusions.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Cardus

When you say that Crist is "a writer", do you mean that he is a columnist, as opposed to a reporter?

Exactly what I meant.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by affirmedny

With all due respect, why is the push for lower takeout always aimed at horizontal wagers when they represent only a minor portion of the handle? Does your organization not represent the majority of horseplayers that obviously don't play these wagers? Just curious as I've never seen this question asked.

That's a fair question...

The industry's lower takeout push to date has been focused on horizontal wagers.

Why?

I think it's because those wagers represent a small percentage of overall handle. By lowering takeout on P3, P4, and P5 wagers, tracks get a "headline" that can be used for marketing... without undertaking nearly as much risk had they lowered the takeout for vertical wagers.

If you are asking why I specifically mentioned 3 and 4 horse wagers...

I wasn't even thinking about P3 and P4 wagers when I wrote that.

To be specific, I was thinking about NYRA's 24.00% takeout on TRI and SUPER wagers when I wrote that.

The one area where I think high takeout is most egregious (industry wide) is TRI and SUPER wagers.

As an industry leader, I would like to see NYRA do something about that.

(That, in a nutshell, was the thought process as I was writing the takeout part of my lengthy post.)


-jp

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[mannyberrios]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Back to the topic at hand, screwing over Genting was just a matter of time

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...hts-for-tracks

Screw around for 10 years to get the place up and running and you jack the casino firm within the first year of business. Anyone still think this is going to be an improvement for racing?

I hope this doesnt get ugly

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Exactly what I meant.

Thanks.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by mannyberrios

I hope this doesnt get ugly

Too late

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

That's a fair question...

The industry's lower takeout push to date has been focused on horizontal wagers.

Why?

I think it's because those wagers represent a small percentage of overall handle. By lowering takeout on P3, P4, and P5 wagers, tracks get a "headline" that can be used for marketing... without undertaking nearly as much risk had they lowered the takeout for vertical wagers.

If you are asking why I specifically mentioned 3 and 4 horse wagers...

I wasn't even thinking about P3 and P4 wagers when I wrote that.

To be specific, I was thinking about NYRA's 24.00% takeout on TRI and SUPER wagers when I wrote that.

The one area where I think high takeout is most egregious (industry wide) is TRI and SUPER wagers.

As an industry leader, I would like to see NYRA do something about that.

(That, in a nutshell, was the thought process as I was writing the takeout part of my lengthy post.)




-jp

.

Good response, thank you.

[Ocala Mike]

[QUOTE=Tom]

Allow me to prime the pump.



http://www.thecommunicator.org/march04/shadow.htm

QUOTE]


Interesting that Tom is using an article from a state employees' union publication, "The Communicator (PEF)" here. The writer, Sherry Halbrook, is writing a story to appear in the next edition of this monthly covering the NY State Tax Dept.'s role in NYRA's "takeoutgate." She took a statement from me a few weeks ago, so I should be mentioned or even quoted in the upcoming article. I'll post a link to it when it appears.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by foregoforever

In addition to OM's link, you'll find this interesting ...

An Examination of Employee Misconduct at the New York Racing Association, Inc., and Management’s Response

Thanks, FF. Very interesting indeed.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Back to the topic at hand, screwing over Genting was just a matter of time

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...hts-for-tracks

Screw around for 10 years to get the place up and running and you jack the casino firm within the first year of business. Anyone still think this is going to be an improvement for racing?

Since Cuomo reorganized NYRA's board, it may now participate in the planning process where it hadn't before. Also, NYRA is now supposed to receive revenue from new casinos where it would not have before. Will things improve things for all groups that participate in racing? We'll have to see how the various groups organize and exert their influence. Now is not the time for horseplayers to be shy or apathetic.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Tom

One of the links I posted about NY scandals deals with NYS officials being involved in violating laws about taking bribes for similar decisions....all to funnel money towards him and his cronies. In fact, the first link.

Dejas vous all over again.

Too bad Fence Plank only considers things that fit his agenda.

Old news. Governor Paterson and Senator Bruno are no longer in office, isn't that enough for you? That company never installed slots at Aqueduct, so it's like it never happened. It's a new day for NY Government. When will the whining end?