|
|
11-17-2018, 08:36 PM
|
#31
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,053
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afleet
dam was a sprinter, damsire Menifee not known for distance if I'm not mistaken
|
Menifee was a half brother to Desert Wine, who won both the Hollywood Gold Cup and Charles Strub at 10 furlongs. Desert Wine was also runner-up in both the 1983 Kentucky Derby and Preakness.
Menifee himself also ended up the runner-up in both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness in 1999 behind Charismatic. As a 2yo, he won an allowance at Saratoga defeating both Cat Thief and Lemon Drop Kid, both subsequent multiple Grade 1 winners at classic distances. He also defeated both of those the following year in both the Blue Grass and the Kentucky Derby. He also won the Haskell and placed in the Travers and Super Derby.
Menifee was exported to South Korea fairly early in his stud career. He has been leading sire by a wide margin for 6 straight years and is currently 2nd in the standings this year (behind former race rival Ecton Park).
The longest Group 1 races in South Korea are the ~10 furlong President's Cup and the ~12 furlong Grand Prix. Horses sired by Menifee have won or placed in 5 of the last 6 runnings of the President's Cup and 4 of the last 6 runnings of the Grand Prix.
|
|
|
11-17-2018, 09:03 PM
|
#32
|
Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
Menifee was a half brother to Desert Wine, who won both the Hollywood Gold Cup and Charles Strub at 10 furlongs. Desert Wine was also runner-up in both the 1983 Kentucky Derby and Preakness.
Menifee himself also ended up the runner-up in both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness in 1999 behind Charismatic. As a 2yo, he won an allowance at Saratoga defeating both Cat Thief and Lemon Drop Kid, both subsequent multiple Grade 1 winners at classic distances. He also defeated both of those the following year in both the Blue Grass and the Kentucky Derby. He also won the Haskell and placed in the Travers and Super Derby.
Menifee was exported to South Korea fairly early in his stud career. He has been leading sire by a wide margin for 6 straight years and is currently 2nd in the standings this year (behind former race rival Ecton Park).
The longest Group 1 races in South Korea are the ~10 furlong President's Cup and the ~12 furlong Grand Prix. Horses sired by Menifee have won or placed in 5 of the last 6 runnings of the President's Cup and 4 of the last 6 runnings of the Grand Prix.
|
Outstanding write up!!!!!!
|
|
|
11-18-2018, 03:03 PM
|
#33
|
Beat up 💪
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Beach life in Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 11,938
|
money flowed overnight
Mucho Gusto +2500 to +2000
Coliseum +2500 to +1600
|
|
|
11-18-2018, 04:42 PM
|
#34
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,208
|
I don't think we've seen the best of Mucho Gusto. Wait until he routes. He could improve going 2 turns.
|
|
|
11-19-2018, 09:32 AM
|
#35
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss
That was not the # I thought you'd get because Coliseum was barely trying and Mucho was all-in to hang on, and the 1 was coming a little, but nothing was coming at Coliseum.
Pretty impressive.
|
That waas the time, not the number.
I'll have official today, but final time wise Coliseum going to get around 111 and Mucho Gusto 107. But, we factor in pace, and there was a huge difference in pace. The overall numbers will be 104 for Coliseum, 109 for Mucho Gusto.
That said, it isn't like I'd think Coliseum isn't going to run a better number next time. These are two year olds and basing horses on one number probably isn't very wise.
|
|
|
11-19-2018, 11:51 AM
|
#36
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
That waas the time, not the number.
I'll have official today, but final time wise Coliseum going to get around 111 and Mucho Gusto 107. But, we factor in pace, and there was a huge difference in pace. The overall numbers will be 104 for Coliseum, 109 for Mucho Gusto.
That said, it isn't like I'd think Coliseum isn't going to run a better number next time. These are two year olds and basing horses on one number probably isn't very wise.
|
Thanx cj,
That's pretty much what I expected. You're right, these are growing horses that will probably improve on their numbers, especially Coliseum as this was his first race and he is most likely to improve on his figure. Only time will tell......
|
|
|
11-19-2018, 03:48 PM
|
#37
|
Beat up 💪
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Beach life in Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 11,938
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
That waas the time, not the number.
I'll have official today, but final time wise Coliseum going to get around 111 and Mucho Gusto 107. But, we factor in pace, and there was a huge difference in pace. The overall numbers will be 104 for Coliseum, 109 for Mucho Gusto.
That said, it isn't like I'd think Coliseum isn't going to run a better number next time. These are two year olds and basing horses on one number probably isn't very wise.
|
Quote:
That waas the time, not the number.
|
yea, I knew that.. lol. thoughts enter my brain, once there, they are placed through an insanity filter and then typed out in such a way that make no sense.
I think what i meant was :
To my eye Coliseum was not working all that hard, and Mucho Gusto was, and therefore I was expecting the Mucho race time to come up faster.
Regarding your figures, I heard You on breeders cup wrap up with PTF and Argona this week, where you said you UP RATE a 3 length win a on grass much more than a 3 length win on dirt...
So if you were to agree with me that Mucho was working hard and Coliseum barely broke a sweat, then what would you do with the 104 vs the 109? Pace wise.
Would you say Coliseum could have?, or would have? Potentially run a 111+ if someone ( jockey or other horse) was pushing him like Mucho got pushed?
Last edited by Suff; 11-19-2018 at 03:50 PM.
|
|
|
11-19-2018, 11:13 PM
|
#38
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss
yea, I knew that.. lol. thoughts enter my brain, once there, they are placed through an insanity filter and then typed out in such a way that make no sense.
I think what i meant was :
To my eye Coliseum was not working all that hard, and Mucho Gusto was, and therefore I was expecting the Mucho race time to come up faster.
Regarding your figures, I heard You on breeders cup wrap up with PTF and Argona this week, where you said you UP RATE a 3 length win a on grass much more than a 3 length win on dirt...
So if you were to agree with me that Mucho was working hard and Coliseum barely broke a sweat, then what would you do with the 104 vs the 109? Pace wise.
Would you say Coliseum could have?, or would have? Potentially run a 111+ if someone ( jockey or other horse) was pushing him like Mucho got pushed?
|
It is tricky. Most times, I'd see a slow pace, big final time win and figure overrated and probably overbet. But when it is a Baffert horse, it can be like beating your head against the wall. Just depends on what he is up against next out, but you never really know how they will react under tougher conditions until they face them.
|
|
|
11-20-2018, 12:33 AM
|
#39
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
|
Kentucky Derby Futures (run by Churchill) as him 15-1. Will get bet - interesting to see what his odds are by the time the pool closes.
|
|
|
11-20-2018, 09:11 AM
|
#40
|
Beat up 💪
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Beach life in Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 11,938
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
It is tricky. Most times, I'd see a slow pace, big final time win and figure overrated and probably overbet. But when it is a Baffert horse, it can be like beating your head against the wall. Just depends on what he is up against next out, but you never really know how they will react under tougher conditions until they face them.
|
I'm usually more interested in the next race at NYRA than I am in next years KD. I just happen to bite on this coliseum thread.
And I was lucky enough to end up getting $85 at 25-1 on Coliseum w/Bovada.
I also bet some Pegasus futures while I was in there.
I watched the replays of Mucho and Coliseum this morning. It was clear to me that the Coliseum was taken in hand after he broke well, and then ridden cautiously because he's been a *head case. But once he got settled and took a slight tap on shoulder, he showed up BIG. imho, he'd run circles around Mucho Gusto.
I'm set up at Gulfstream with seats for the Pegasus, so if you come down I have extra and got you if you want. They're paddock seats. North side in the shade.
|
|
|
11-20-2018, 12:17 PM
|
#41
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss
I'm usually more interested in the next race at NYRA than I am in next years KD. I just happen to bite on this coliseum thread.
And I was lucky enough to end up getting $85 at 25-1 on Coliseum w/Bovada.
I also bet some Pegasus futures while I was in there.
I watched the replays of Mucho and Coliseum this morning. It was clear to me that the Coliseum was taken in hand after he broke well, and then ridden cautiously because he's been a *head case. But once he got settled and took a slight tap on shoulder, he showed up BIG. imho, he'd run circles around Mucho Gusto.
I'm set up at Gulfstream with seats for the Pegasus, so if you come down I have extra and got you if you want. They're paddock seats. North side in the shade.
|
Pretty sure I'm on a wanted poster at Gulfstream.
https://timeformusblog.com/2017/01/3...onable-timing/
https://timeformusblog.com/2018/01/0...lfstream-park/
https://timeformusblog.com/2016/02/0...lfstream-park/
|
|
|
11-20-2018, 12:25 PM
|
#42
|
The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
|
OMG!
Wear a disguise if you go!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
|
|
|
09-03-2019, 11:42 PM
|
#43
|
Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
|
He is working very well. Do we see a matured horse now?
__________________
Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood.
|
|
|
09-05-2019, 10:38 AM
|
#44
|
clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
|
blast from the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocko699
He is working very well. Do we see a matured horse now?
|
He's a Cool horse
Haven't seen his recent works. Haven't heard where he's pointed.
He certainly has some talent, I know they juggled different bits with this guy, and have dealt with issues.
On the track, if he can consistently break and/or obtain a position, he has a lot of potential.
On paper, he seems about 2 (maybe 1) works away from race fit.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
|
|
|
09-05-2019, 11:15 AM
|
#45
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,613
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
It is tricky. Most times, I'd see a slow pace, big final time win and figure overrated and probably overbet. But when it is a Baffert horse, it can be like beating your head against the wall. Just depends on what he is up against next out, but you never really know how they will react under tougher conditions until they face them.
|
I agree with CJ.
When a lightly raced horse (especially in their debut) puts up a big figure in a slow paced race, one of two things usually happens when they are tested. The horse reveals there was more in the tank and he could run ever faster when pressed to or he reveals that he's a cheaper type speed horse that needs his own way to put up a number. If the horse is trained by Joe Blow with a mediocre pedigree and and wasn't sold for a lot of money, you are usually safe if you assume guilty until proven innocent at a short price. With a top pedigree from top breeders and trained by Baffert, you are usually safer to assume there's more where that came from. So far, this one doesn't look as promising, but maybe he was having issues and that's why he was given time off.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|