Trump lies

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by hcap

Yes, I did say "almost"

Maybe some combination including the market should be investigated. Are there any proposals?

No Canadians won't here of it yet its, bankrupting us, its the single biggest expense to our government, it's why we also pay so much in taxes, if you make 30k in Canada 25% goes to taxes, The U.S also spends a lot on funding the military you can kiss that goodbye if you want health care for all, I have relatives in the U.K and in Australia they don't have free market health care either, The countries that have both the care given is terrible, all the good doctors are in the free market and the bad ones are in government health care. Citizens who get private health care get great health care and quickly, the ones who can't afford it get crappy care and service. In the U.K if you make more than 47k you pay 40% to tax, in France its 45% regardless of what you make,Australia if you make 37k its 32.5%, Netherlands 33k is 40% Sweden and Denmark pat 60% of their income regardless of what they make to pay for health care for all so it all depends on what you value more, you guys pay 12% on 37k, it's a big difference.

[MutuelClerk]

I will always support the President. I didn't vote for either President Trump or Hillary. If i had to have chosen one it would have been the President. I appreciate some of the things President Trump has accomplished. Unemployment and going after other countries on trade. But when i see him interviewed or read tweets he strikes me as a scared old man. Not a true leader. Entitled with an ego that will be his downfall. He plays to a base that is much the same. There isn't a Democrat out there I'll vote for. Once again i will probably vote third party. I did have hopes. But his petulance is just too much for me to take. The only way to MAGA is to have a third party President. These two parties have buried us.......

[hcap]

Originally Posted by azeri98

No Canadians won't here of it yet its, bankrupting us, its the single biggest expense to our government, it's why we also pay so much in taxes, if you make 30k in Canada 25% goes to taxes, The U.S also spends a lot on funding the military you can kiss that goodbye if you want health care for all, I have relatives in the U.K and in Australia they don't have free market health care either, The countries that have both the care given is terrible, all the good doctors are in the free market and the bad ones are in government health care. Citizens who get private health care get great health care and quickly, the ones who can't afford it get crappy care and service. In the U.K if you make more than 47k you pay 40% to tax, in France its 45% regardless of what you make,Australia if you make 37k its 32.5%, Netherlands 33k is 40% Sweden and Denmark pat 60% of their income regardless of what they make to pay for health care for all so it all depends on what you value more, you guys pay 12% on 37k, it's a big difference.

You are providing annecdatal info.

https://www.yourworldhealthcare.com/...k-vs-australia

Australia called Medicare

Should an Australian citizen wish to use private healthcare services, Medicare will cover the cost up to what state-funded hospital care would incur - the rest is up to the citizen to pay, either by themselves or via a private insurance policy. Medicine in Australia is, again, partly paid by Medicare and partly paid by the citizen.

Medicare will not cover dentistry, optometry or transport via ambulance. However, many Australians choose to take out a private insurance policy to cover these services.

The NHS

UK citizens pay tax and National Insurance in order to fund their National Health Service. Despite the service being predominantly taxation funded, roughly 1.2% of NHS funds come from patient charges.

The UK. NHS Prescriptions


Unlike Medicare in Australia, the NHS does not pay towards prescription (medicine) charges and each prescription filled costs £8.20. Some citizens are exempt from prescription charges and those using regular medication can purchase a pre-payment card for £104 per annum (or £29.10 for 3 months).

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are providing annecdatal info.

https://www.yourworldhealthcare.com/...k-vs-australia

Australia called Medicare

Should an Australian citizen wish to use private healthcare services, Medicare will cover the cost up to what state-funded hospital care would incur - the rest is up to the citizen to pay, either by themselves or via a private insurance policy. Medicine in Australia is, again, partly paid by Medicare and partly paid by the citizen.

Medicare will not cover dentistry, optometry or transport via ambulance. However, many Australians choose to take out a private insurance policy to cover these services.

The NHS

UK citizens pay tax and National Insurance in order to fund their National Health Service. Despite the service being predominantly taxation funded, roughly 1.2% of NHS funds come from patient charges.

The UK. NHS Prescriptions


Unlike Medicare in Australia, the NHS does not pay towards prescription (medicine) charges and each prescription filled costs £8.20. Some citizens are exempt from prescription charges and those using regular medication can purchase a pre-payment card for £104 per annum (or £29.10 for 3 months).

Medicine is not covered in Canada either unless you are a senior. Ok so in the U.K 1.2% is not covered that's a small amount, The biggest issue with universal health care is the cost and where does the money come from, you didn't address that in any of your posts, how do you think the American public react to having their taxes doubled ot tripled to pay for it never mind having to also cut military spending to also pay for it. All the countries you provided in your list their biggest expenditure is health care, hence such high taxes. I think even Democrats would scoff at the idea ofhaving their taxes doubled or tripled. I live in Canada but was born in the U.S, there is nothing us Americans love more than or money. All the countries on your list also pay much less in military spending than the U.S does, so their would also have to be fundamental changes militarily as well to make it feasible. It's not an easy fix.It all depends on what you value more, areyou willing to give up some of your safety and security for heath care for all or even more are you willing to give up another 20% of your paycheck to support ir

[hcap]

Originally Posted by azeri98

Medicine is not covered in Canada either unless you are a senior. Ok so in the U.K 1.2% is not covered that's a small amount, The biggest issue with universal health care is the cost and where does the money come from, you didn't address that in any of your posts, how do you think the American public react to having their taxes doubled ot tripled to pay for it never mind having to also cut military spending to also pay for it. All the countries you provided in your list their biggest expenditure is health care, hence such high taxes. I think even Democrats would scoff at the idea ofhaving their taxes doubled or tripled. I live in Canada but was born in the U.S, there is nothing us Americans love more than or money. All the countries on your list also pay much less in military spending than the U.S does, so their would also have to be fundamental changes militarily as well to make it feasible. It's not an easy fix.It all depends on what you value more, areyou willing to give up some of your safety and security for heath care for all or even more are you willing to give up another 20% of your paycheck to support ir

Your info specifically about Australia and the UK was incorrect. We have already agreed taxes must be raised for more socialized medicine. A good portion of the world knows that and does that

And?

[azeri98]

My info on the U.K was off by 1.2%. I was incorrect on Australia. So you would give up at least 20% of your income and large cuts to your military for universal health care? Out of all the countries you listed only ONE has private health care mixed with government assistance you said almost "ALL", so you were incorrect too unless you consider 1 out of 10 almost all.If the Democrats even mentioned that they would raise taxes in order to get universal health care they would get killed in the election, that's why they don't discuss it. The Reps are making a huge mistake by not pointing this out instead they talk about immigration, I'm no fan of either party I think they both fail our country.Time for a 3rd party in the middle. If the Dems somehow seize power and push through universal health care by raising taxes and cutting the military they will lose the power they won, The only way to do it is to raise taxes by a lot and slash the military, say goodbye to being to top dog in the world

[hcap]

Originally Posted by azeri98

My info on the U.K was off by 1.2%. I was incorrect on Australia. So you would give up at least 20% of your income and large cuts to your military for universal health care? Out of all the countries you listed only ONE has private health care mixed with government assistance you said almost "ALL", so you were incorrect too unless you consider 1 out of 10 almost all.

My original statement was western countries had "some sort of mix of socialism and free markets."

I could list many, many more, but I get the feeling you will argue unreasonably.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by hcap

My original statement was western countries had "some sort of mix of socialism and free markets."

I could list many, many more, but I get the feeling you will argue unreasonably.

I was going by the list you provided so how am I being unreasonable? You just don't have a good answer, I was answering your post , not something you just added now.I have read a lot of your posts and on some things I agree but there as others have posted I fear there is no reasoning with you because you refuse to ever admit when you are wrong or uneducated about a subject, take it from someone who lives with health care for all and have had to use the system and almost die because of it, It ain't that great

[hcap]

Originally Posted by azeri98

I was going by the list you provided so how am I being unreasonable? You just don't have a good answer, I was answering your post , not something you just added now.I have read a lot of your posts and on some things I agree but there as others have posted I fear there is no reasoning with you because you refuse to ever admit when you are wrong or uneducated about a subject, take it from someone who lives with health care for all and have had to use the system and almost die because of it, It ain't that great

Which list? The post I refereed to listed quite a few, and there are other publicly available lists of all the 34 OECD member countries are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden.

There is also Japan and a few other asian countries that may be investigated

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by hcap

Which list? The post I refereed to listed quite a few, and there are other publicly available lists of all the 34 OECD member countries are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden.

There is also Japan and a few other asian countries that may be investigated

The list you provided in post #15 it has 11 countries listed one of which is the U.S, the only other one on the list that has some form of private health care is Australia, that's why when you said almost all I shook my head. I can only answer to what you posted if you posted another list somewhere else then there was a miscommunication somewhere. I only responded to what I saw there. I have nothing against you like I said I agree with some of your ideals i'm independent so I agree with certain ideas on both sided. On economic issues and the safety of the country I agree with the reps on most if not all social issues I agree with the Dems, i'm a dying breed, if I insulted you in any way I apologize, I've lived in the universal health care system for 30 years so I know a lot about, don't get me wrong there benefits to it, nobody should go broke because they are sick but there are many issues with it as well, the waiting times are unacceptable, the system is abused by people who don't really need a doctor they only go because it is free, my father-in-law had to go to the ER last week and it was so busy he spent 9 hours on a gurney waiting in the hallway to see a doctor, that would never happen in the U.S. Like I said there are good and bad with every system just know you get good care once you get it and its free, not really we pay a boatload in taxes so it's free. I will check on the countries you just listed now, not to prove you wrong, for my own knowledge, I can tell you off the bat that Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Netherlands Norway and Sweden don't have private health care I have reaserached those, the Scanadanavian countries pay 60% tax to have it

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by hcap

Which list? The post I refereed to listed quite a few, and there are other publicly available lists of all the 34 OECD member countries are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden.

There is also Japan and a few other asian countries that may be investigated

Austria is Universal,Belgium has both Chile is only 14% private the rest universal, Czech republic is universal, Estonia is universal, Finland is universal,France is universal,Germany is both,Hungary is universal,Isreal is universal,Italy is universal, Japan is universal,Korea is universal,Luxembourg is universal, Mexico is universal,New Zealand is mostly universal a small portion are private but doesn't specify what,Poland is universal, Portugal is universal,Slovak is universal,Slovenia is universal, Spain is 98% universal the other 2% is for medicine they don't cover that so its universal, Denmark,the Netherlands, Iceland,Sweden, China and Russia are universal, so the only countries on this list you mentioned that have a mixture of private and public health care are Australia, , Germany,New Zealand and a small portion of Chile so its a small list

[snappit]

Originally Posted by hcap

Unlike Medicare in Australia, the NHS does not pay towards prescription (medicine) charges and each prescription filled costs £8.20. Some citizens are exempt from prescription charges and those using regular medication can purchase a pre-payment card for £104 per annum (or £29.10 for 3 months).

This is slightly incorrect. It is only in England that citizens pay for prescriptions. They are free in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Even in England government figures show that 88% of people get free prescriptions, under 16's, over 60's, people on some benefits, people with certain medical conditions like cancer etc.

To correct another post there is free market healthcare in the UK but most people rely on the NHS. The private sector is very small and not many use it. There is no need to as the NHS is pretty good (not perfect) though. A recent survey showed that the NHS was the second most loved institution in the UK, only behind the Fire Service but ahead of the monarchy, police and armed forces.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by MutuelClerk

I will always support the President. I didn't vote for either President Trump or Hillary. If i had to have chosen one it would have been the President. I appreciate some of the things President Trump has accomplished. Unemployment and going after other countries on trade. But when i see him interviewed or read tweets he strikes me as a scared old man. Not a true leader.

Trump stands up for himself and the country. I don't see him as "scared" at all. When someone hits him with an insult, he hits back.

How Trump communicates is better than the typical politician who speaks in the same super polite jargon. Just tell it like it is.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by snappit

This is slightly incorrect. It is only in England that citizens pay for prescriptions. They are free in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Even in England government figures show that 88% of people get free prescriptions, under 16's, over 60's, people on some benefits, people with certain medical conditions like cancer etc.

To correct another post there is free market healthcare in the UK but most people rely on the NHS. The private sector is very small and not many use it. There is no need to as the NHS is pretty good (not perfect) though. A recent survey showed that the NHS was the second most loved institution in the UK, only behind the Fire Service but ahead of the monarchy, police and armed forces.

Yes. Just found this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...Private_sector

About 27.6% of Canadians' healthcare is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or partially covered by Medicare, such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Some 75% of Canadians have some form of supplementary private health insurance; many of them receive it through their employers.

"Although there are laws prohibiting or curtailing private health care in some provinces, they can be changed", according to a report in the New England Journal of Medicine.[47][48] In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in Chaoulli v. Quebec (Attorney General) that Quebec's prohibition against private health insurance for medically necessary services laws violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, potentially opening the door to much more private sector participation in the health system. Justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority. "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care", wrote Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin.

The Quebec and federal governments asked the high court to suspend its ruling for 18 months. Less than two months after its initial ruling, the court agreed to suspend its decision for 12 months, retroactive to June 9, 2005.[49]


My original statement that almost all of western industrialized healthcare is a MIX of socialism and the private market is correct

[hcap]

Private Health Ins
urance in OECD Countries:
The Benefits and
Costs for Individuals and
Health Systems

http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/33698043.pdf


SUMMARY
1.
Governments often look to private health insurance (PHI) as a possible means of addressing some
health system challenges. For example, they may consider enhancing its role as an alternative source of
health financing and a way to increase system capacity, or promoting it as a tool to further additional health
policy goals, such as enhanced individual responsibility. In some countries policy makers regard PHI as a
key element of their health coverage systems.
2.
While private health insurance represents, on average, only a small share of total health funding
across the OECD area, it plays a significant role in health financing in some OECD countries and it covers
at least 30% of the population in a third of the OECD members. It also plays a variety of roles, ranging
from primary coverage for particular population groups to a supporting role for public systems.