Pimlico rebuild becomes reality

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Ultimately you have to make a choice.

Do you want draw bigger crowds for marquee races but risk the purse money going to NY or other out of town trainers or do you want 2nd tier racing?

That's why I like the vacation destination model best. If people are in the area because it's an attractive vacation spot, you can try to make a day at the races one of the main entertainment options. As long at the quality of racing is pretty good and the facility attractive, the crowds should be better than in a non vacation destination area.

One other thing about big races. They increase the brand of the race course that offers them, which increases the handle for the regular blue collar races. Saratoga gets half their handle just because it is called Saratoga

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by racenomics

One other thing about big races. They increase the brand of the race course that offers them, which increases the handle for the regular blue collar races. Saratoga gets half their handle just because it is called Saratoga

That sounds true on paper but I'm not sure I buy it. I think there are too many confounding variables to prove a major stakes race once a year means anything to bettors choosing to bet a track on a random weekday.

Parx would be a good case. PA Derby day is now an "event", and it does sometimes draw top 3-year-olds. But how do you separate that from the fact that when the casino opened 15 years ago they were able to triple their daily purses? Isn't that what made people pay attention to them, the fact the quality of the racing improved and they were suddenly the best track running on an average winter or spring Monday or Tuesday afternoon? To me, it's also tough to call something a "success" when you consider that if casino revenue went away, the track would either immediately close or revert to its 20-year-ago level. Racing is fully propped up by the casino, and Parx loses money on racing overall (and Penn National even more so).

Another example would be Turfway. Racing there was once pretty dire, but track handle went up 62% (!!!) in 2022-2023 and 17% in 2023-2024. Is that because they have the $700,000 Jeff Ruby Steaks one day a year, or because they now regularly run full fields of competitive racing in the right "time slot"? I'd strongly argue the latter.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Ultimately you have to make a choice.

Do you want draw bigger crowds for marquee races but risk the purse money going to NY or other out of town trainers or do you want 2nd tier racing?

That's why I like the vacation destination model best. If people are in the area because it's an attractive vacation spot, you can try to make a day at the races one of the main entertainment options. As long at the quality of racing is pretty good and the facility attractive, the crowds should be better than in a non vacation destination area.

While a lot of this has happened since I left in early 2001, the horsemen were faced with further daily purse cuts while races like the Pimlico Special for instance, if memory serves, were trying to be revived. That was a good thing.

But Owners and riders were very upset, not just horsemen. I promise you this was not just trainers sitting around drumming up an idea as , owners, breeders, etc. had just as big a voice. The Md. Million day had been implemented and that was indeed a tremendous boost for Md. breeders, owners and trainers, jockeys , who by the way, would normally sit in the jocks room and watch out of town riders come in and win 1/2 the card on Preakness day. They as well were upset.

Nobody wanted 2nd tier racing, but without a change of some sort, something was going to die off which would have led to less handle and less interest for fans either way. It was a real problem. There were other problems as well, one being the illegal drug situation and the lack of funding for the testing procedures. It could not keep up .
Not so much in the marquee races, but the everyday claiming, etc. racing was a problem if you were one of those that were trying to compete on what , IMO had become a very unlevel playing field.
For me, my kids were starting to grow up and with all that drug stuff to compete against, it was time to go. The game itself meant too much to me to cheat to compete at the level I was accustomed to so that was that.


I left shortly thereafter after 25 years of training in early 2001 so not much help as to any horsemen's decisions after that time period.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by castaway01

That sounds true on paper but I'm not sure I buy it. I think there are too many confounding variables to prove a major stakes race once a year means anything to bettors choosing to bet a track on a random weekday.

Parx would be a good case. PA Derby day is now an "event", and it does sometimes draw top 3-year-olds. But how do you separate that from the fact that when the casino opened 15 years ago they were able to triple their daily purses? Isn't that what made people pay attention to them, the fact the quality of the racing improved and they were suddenly the best track running on an average winter or spring Monday or Tuesday afternoon? To me, it's also tough to call something a "success" when you consider that if casino revenue went away, the track would either immediately close or revert to its 20-year-ago level. Racing is fully propped up by the casino, and Parx loses money on racing overall (and Penn National even more so).

Another example would be Turfway. Racing there was once pretty dire, but track handle went up 62% (!!!) in 2022-2023 and 17% in 2023-2024. Is that because they have the $700,000 Jeff Ruby Steaks one day a year, or because they now regularly run full fields of competitive racing in the right "time slot"? I'd strongly argue the latter.

I would say its because purses tripled, in the way that parx and Penn National did, with the turfway scenario. Also due to the history of Maryland racing, it will always be “higher class” than Parx or Penn National. Another comparison could be Tampa. Due to the Tampa Bay derby, they now get much better handle and recognition for just their overnight races. They soundly beat Laurel in terms of handle despite having lower overnight purses and arguably lower quality racing

[bisket]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Ultimately you have to make a choice.

Do you want draw bigger crowds for marquee races but risk the purse money going to NY or other out of town trainers or do you want 2nd tier racing?

That's why I like the vacation destination model best. If people are in the area because it's an attractive vacation spot, you can try to make a day at the races one of the main entertainment options. As long at the quality of racing is pretty good and the facility attractive, the crowds should be better than in a non vacation destination area.

After it was decided casinos wouldn’t be at Laurel or Pimlico there was like 15 years where MD racing was in the wilderness. MD had the Preakness which trumped any race day the other Mid Atlantic tracks could have. The other states had the benefits of casino revenue to have larger purses. Monmouth, Delaware Park, Parx, and Charles Town had purses almost twice MD’s. When casinos were finally approved and built MD dipped their toe in the pool with the other Mid Atlantic states. Everyone in the Mid Atlantic were competing for the same horses. One thing MD has is more established breeding farms. MD could fill races with their own horses. So it made sense to go back to a similar purse structure MD had without casino revenue and use that money for more racing dates and to pay off the loan for an updated Pimlico. Monmouth has shortened their meet. Parx basically fills in the dark days of the rest of the tracks. Charles Town is the only Mid Atlantic track to increase the class level of their horse population from casinos. The others really only have similar class level as MD with higher purses. So I really think the thoughts that higher purses = better class of horses is really not an accurate take. lol has Kentucky all of a sudden spit out a larger amount higher class horses. I’d say no. I would say the fact Monmouth decreased meet size and Meadow Lands closed to thoroughbreds. Parx races on dark days and MD keeps going with their Wednesday or Thursday to Sunday race cards with increased race days. I’d say MD is prospering.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

LOLOL. The old Roach stompers.

You must have known some of us in the late 70's-80's-90's or been part of it.

I think you were a Pimlico guy.

You know too much. Hahaha.

I’m headed to Eastern Ave after work to get my Preakness shirt and 2 slices. I got the roach killers covered. 3 checks to pay off the shirt.

https://youtu.be/HVEqy6K18Yo?si=DUXwbT6lfR7ycW7m

[bisket]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

I'm excited to be returning to Baltimore for Preakness weekend this year for the first time since 2019.

Let me give you or anyone making the trip to Baltimore some dining advice. Costas in Dundalk has the best seafood. I’ll let Kathie Lee Gifford do the sales pitch from their site. If you decide to eat in the bar be sure to go through the door to the dining room to use the bathroom, not the restroom in the back of the bar. They have a small allowance and stakes barn and you’ll see they’re not strangers to the winner circle. Dale Capuano was their trainer. I don’t know who they pick up since he retired. Their Wednesday blues night was a can’t miss, but they discontinued it after Covid.

https://www.costasinn.com/

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by bisket

I’m headed to Eastern Ave after work to get my Preakness shirt and 2 slices. I got the roach killers covered. 3 checks to pay off the shirt.

https://youtu.be/HVEqy6K18Yo?si=DUXwbT6lfR7ycW7m

Originally Posted by bisket

Let me give you or anyone making the trip to Baltimore some dining advice. Costas in Dundalk has the best seafood. I’ll let Kathie Lee Gifford do the sales pitch from their site. If you decide to eat in the bar be sure to go through the door to the dining room to use the bathroom, not the restroom in the back of the bar. They have a small allowance and stakes barn and you’ll see they’re not strangers to the winner circle. Dale Capuano was their trainer. I don’t know who they pick up since he retired. Their Wednesday blues night was a can’t miss, but they discontinued it after Covid.

https://www.costasinn.com/

The youtube video is totally appropriate. Hahaha.

And Costas is a GREAT place to get crabs and seafood.

Costas and I certainly know one another from back in the day.

A very kind man.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

The youtube video is totally appropriate. Hahaha.

And Costas is a GREAT place to get crabs and seafood.

Costas and I certainly know one another from back in the day.

A very kind man.

1999 MD Horseman of the year. When I separated from my ex wife I purchased a house trailer in a trailer park a few blocks from Costas. It was a better deal than renting an apartment. So I ate there frequently and never missed a blues/jazz Wednesday. I bought a home 8 years ago so I’m not there as much these days.